AGA Flirts TOPS allocations?

[TheEdge]

I just wondered if anyone who knows how class numbers are allocated and what blocks are available or not might think the GA Flirt units will be allocated.

I assume the pure EMU Intercity units will sit in the 3xx area (maybe 370?) but I am more interested in where the bi-mode rural units will sit. Obviously 800 and 802 has been given to bi-modes so we can assume it will get an 8xx number but I guess not an 80x number to get them away from the Hitachi units? 810, 850 maybe? How much if any of the 8xx series is blocked by other stock?

 

[birchesgreen]

370 has been used already by the APT (of course TOP class designations have been reused but i doubt they would in this case). Is there any reason why they wouldn't be in the 7xx area if 3xx is full?

 

[DenmarkRail]

How about 324?

 

[D365]

I was fairly sure that the 8xx series was intended for all new LDHS units (regardless if bi-mode or not) but obviously the twelve CAF-built Class 397s for TPE defies this.

 

[DasLunatic]

How about 324?

That's more likely to be the Aventras. Intercity stock is generally a higher number - so I think it'll be 369 or somewhere around there.

 

[Wivenswold]

Bi-modes could be in the 2 series. 223 and 224 are free and would identify number of coaches.

712 for the 12 coach Stadlers.

720 for the 10 car Aventras and 725 for the 5 car units.

 

[D365]

Bi-modes could be in the 2 series. 223 and 224 are free and would identify number of coaches.

712 for the 12 coach Stadlers.

720 for the 10 car Aventras and 725 for the 5 car units.

Why do you reckon that different unit lengths belong under different classes?

 

[Tim R-T-C]

....so I think it'll be 369 or somewhere around there.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Why do you reckon that different unit lengths belong under different classes?

The 10 car sets have ~24m long carriages while the 5 car sets have 22m long carriages, so they're functionally a different design.

 

[D365]

The 10 car sets have ~24m long carriages while the 5 car sets have 22m long carriages, so they're functionally a different design.

That's news to me, normally (as with the Class 700s) they'd be designed so that the shorter units can be made up to full length by adding more carriages at a later date.

 

[swt_passenger]

I was fairly sure that the 8xx series was intended for all new LDHS units (regardless if bi-mode or not) but obviously the twelve CAF-built Class 397s for TPE defies this.

800-899 is reserved for high speed multiple units and other fixed formation stock, regardless of power source. I assume high speed in this context means 125 mph?

AC or dual voltage conventional EMU ranges are 300-399 and 700-799. The ranges do not have any separate meaning, the new batch just gives a greater choice.

 

[D365]

800-899 is reserved for high speed multiple units and other fixed formation stock, regardless of power source. I assume high speed in this context means 125 mph.

Yeah it would do. So in their eyes I'm sure the logical thing to do, after seeing the AT300s through, was clearly to revert back to the old 3xx range!

 

[jopsuk]

Logic isn't always the best friend of the TOPS allocations

 

[TheEdge]

So it would seem it'll most likely be in the 7xx series I presume?

 

[WatcherZero]

Unless there is any more gaps they can squeeze in the old system, because they are completionists :P

 

[SPADTrap]

Class 345 Aventra
Class 383 Flirt

According to the emails I've had, although that was in the context of West Anglia (Abellio)

 

[Domh245]

I thought that it was class 710 Aventras that will be operating the West Anglia LO services, whilst the 345s operate the crossrail services.

 

[SPADTrap]

I thought that it was class 710 Aventras that will be operating the West Anglia LO services, whilst the 345s operate the crossrail services.

Aventras for West Anglia (Abellio) as well, probably a subclass of the 345. Replacement for 317 work while the Flirts will do 379 work.

 

[D365]

Aventras for West Anglia (Abellio) as well, probably a subclass of the 345.

Why would it be a subclass all of a sudden? The Desiro City variants are different classes in the 7xx range, Class 345 only being used because Crossrail registered it long ago.

 

[SPADTrap]

Why would it be a subclass all of a sudden? The Desiro City variants are different classes in the 7xx range, Class 345 only being used because Crossrail registered it long ago.

Those were the numbers thrown about at the last union branch meeting I attended, that is all I know.

I guessed a subclass because interiors aside the units are planned to be the same from what I am told.

 

[SPADTrap]

Just heard 'Aventra Class 720' and seen a photo of the proposed cab.

 

[D365]

Just heard 'Aventra Class 720' and seen a photo of the proposed cab.

So what's going to happen to Classes 711-719? Aside from the Class 717 :roll:

 

[J-2739]

So what's going to happen to Classes 711-719? Aside from the Class 717 :roll:

715s for the Aventras, I suppose.

 

[jopsuk]

So what's going to happen to Classes 711-719? Aside from the Class 717 :roll:

the numbering doesn't work like that. The existence of Class 710, 720, 717 doesn't stop there being a future class 715.

Other than the Southern Region Class 4xx scheme, don't try to find logic in TOPS numbering. Take just the 37x range:

370: Advanced Passenger Train
371: allocated but never used for a Thameslink dual voltage Networker
372: nothing
373: Eurostar Trans Manche Super Train/ E300
374: Eurostar E320
375: Southeastern Mainline Electrostars
376: Southeastern Metro Electrostars
377: Southern Electrostars (also Thameslink and now Southeastern) - bascially the same thing as 375, in 3, 4, 5 car and metro and mainline interior variants.
378: London Overground Capitalstars (development of the 376)
379: Stansted Express Electrostars

 

[SPADTrap]

So what's going to happen to Classes 711-719? Aside from the Class 717 :roll:

Not sure why you're asking me that, I have no idea.

When I say 'just heard' I mean from someone who visited Bombardier Derby to see the units progress, for what it's worth.

 

[Roast Veg]

720/0 and 720/1 seems likely, if Siemens are trying to hog all the 7x7s then Bombardier might be after all the 7x0s. Stadler units will be a mystery until they appear, my guess is that they will be something like 383/0 and 383/1 for the EDMUs and 393/0 and 393/1 for the EMUs if a 3x3 pattern is chosen, or possibly 383 EDMU and 384 EMU (or the other way around). Though as has been said, TOPS is a mystery to us all.

 

[jzw95]

Who actually makes the decision and what is the process for requesting and deciding on the allocation? For instance: Is it the manufacturer or operator that asks for the allocation? Does a single body have oversight of/control of the list, or can an operator just request a number, and as long as no one else in the RDG objects then they get it?

 

[332 > 444]

Not sure why you're asking me that, I have no idea.

When I say 'just heard' I mean from someone who visited Bombardier Derby to see the units progress, for what it's worth.

They have started build already? Wow, that's quick compared how long it took to get the first 345 in production.

 

[D365]

They have started build already? Wow, that's quick compared how long it took to get the first 345 in production.

345 was the first in class. The Class 710s are under production too, the Greater Anglia order basically follows on from both.

 

[Domh245]

They have started build already? Wow, that's quick compared how long it took to get the first 345 in production.

There is a difference between "Progress" and "Build". I'd also be amazed if they'd entered construction already given that the first 710 is still coming together - I think the person that SPADTrap is referring to was probably looking at the design of the things rather than any aluminium and fibreglass.