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advice with planning please

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Shrub Hill

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26 Aug 2009
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we have been invited to an wedding next year in Italy, i am hopefully going to use it as an excuse to travel a bit around europe on my way there and just want a heads up on tickets, as i understand you can get european passes, are these for the whole of europe or can you get them allocated for certain countries, hoping to travel from france through holland switzerland germany and head down to italy from there, what kind of restrictions am i likely to get on these, i assume you can get first / standard class varient's, are there many overnight sleeper trains between the various country's? where is the best place to find advice and book tickets for travel? how long are the tickets valid for, hoping to spend 7 - 10 days on my way down, and more importantly is there anywhere on that route that i really should make an effort to see, travelled a bit around holland a few years ago but this will be a new adventure so don't want to find out later that i missed the most scenic/ nostalgic route whilst getting from A to B, not really interested in spotting while i am out there, more of roving holiday for me and the worse half so not after viewing freight depots etc but at the same time happy to take a longer more scenic route if its worth it, any advice will be appreciated
 
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LexyBoy

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The Man in Seat Sixty-One will tell you most of what you need and is very useful for finding out where to buy tickets and the cheapest way of doing it.

The passes you're thinking of are InterRail passes, and are available in versions covering various countries, depending on what you need. If you're just planning a return trip, without lots of travelling around in between, it will be much cheaper to buy individual tickets.

Depends where you're going in Italy, but there's a sleeper from Paris to Rome via Florence, or a daytime TGV from Paris to Milan.

For a scenic route, consider TGV to Geneva then train through the Swiss countryside to Milan. I think there is a train from Florence to Munich too, which I imagine must go through Switzerland, perhaps could be picked up in Zurich.
 

LouJ

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Suggest you get a copy of the latest Rail Map of Europe publihsed by Thomas Cook. Shows all major toutes and identifies the scenic sections. A copy of their European timetbale would be very useful too.
 

Gordon

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As you say you want to spend at least 7 days ‘getting there’/touring around, the best bet would be and Inter Rail global pass. This is not as good as it was 20 years ago when most trains were ‘walk-on’. Since the advent of market pricing on trains, nowadays you have to get reservations for European high speed trains and all (I think!) remaining overnight trains in western Europe have global fares. Thus you have to buy supplementary reservations etc over and above the purchase price of the Inter Rail, so it is not as simple to just ‘rove’ around Europe as it once was.

Having said that, if you choose your trains carefully and you choose the leisurely option, you can do it. For example there are still the Brussels – Strasbourg – Basel /Chur locomotive hauled trains which are remnants of the traditional Europe wide network of non high speed loco hauled trains.

Personally I would recommend trundling through France or Belgium/Germany then tootling round Switzerland or Austria before moving on to Italy.
In Switzerland, all trains are walk on – although you would be restricted to the railways that accept Inter – Rail (some private lines and mountain railways don’t accept Inter rail without a supplement). Many trains in Austria are also walk on. The advantage of these two countries (apart from the obvious mountainous scenery) is their manageable size which allows you to ‘do’ lots of the different lines at a leisurely pace.

As Lou says, do buy a Cooks European Timetable and a Rail map of Europe. (I used to work for the former and hand drew the original drafts of the latter…)

If you want detailed gen on ‘real’ trains join the specialist European groups: European rail Yahoo group (just read the postings – strictly a ‘no questions’ gen site), and its sister group European-railway-discussion (where you can ask as many questions as you wish on any European railway subject.)

The routes of ‘least resistance’ ie where you would not compulsorily have to pay a speed supplement or a reservation fee are:
(A) via Brussels and Basel
Eurostar to Brussels
Eurocity Iris/Vauban (depending on time of day) to Basel or beyond, perhaps breaking the journey in Strasbourg (some diesel hauled suburban services, expanding tram network and very good culturally)

(B) Via Paris and ordinary trains (not TGV)
Eurostar to Paris
Paris Est – Mulhouse behind a big CC72100 CoCo diesel (see separate post on this subject) and maybe see Alsace for a couple of days
Or
Ordinary trains Paris Bercy – Dijon, then Dijon – Lyon or Grenoble, then perhaps go Lyon – Chamonix – Martigny (scenic international narrow gauge past the foot of Mont Blanc) to get into Switzerland.

One way to find out if your long distance journey is ‘supplement-free’ is top go to the Bahn.de (aka Hafas) European journey planner. Click on Follow this link:
Look in the point to point journey planner left hand side and look for ‘further search options’. In the journeyplanner window that pops up you should see an option to search ‘all without ICE’, or ‘advanced selection means for transport’. Both of these ways will allow you to deselect high speed trains (ICE is the German high speed train), so selecting this option means you will get all an itinerary using traditional non-high speed trains, but sadly you cannot deselect night trains. However, Once you get a detailed itinerary up, you can play around with the length of stopover at specific places to force, for example, an overnight or 2-night stay.



Using Hafas you can demand zig zag itineraries such as the one I have tried here, namely Brussels – Firenze via Nurnberg and Interlaken
 

Railjet

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28 Feb 2009
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All trains in Austria (except night trains, and a couple of trains to Prague) are walk-on.

Also, Gordon gives the impression that you need to pay a supplement/reserve a seat on ICEs in Germany with an Inter-Rail pass. This is not the case - domestic ICEs in Germany are all walk-on and supplement-free (except for the handful of ICE Sprinters) with an Inter-Rail pass.

International ICEs - between Germany and Austria/Switzerland/Belgium/Netherlands/Denmark are also walk-on/supplement-free with an Inter-Rail pass. The only international ICEs where a reservation/supplement is compulsory are those between Germany and France.

I'm not sure that an Inter-Rail pass would be cost-effective for the OP, but it will depend on where he wants to stop off and how far into Italy he is going. For €49 he could get a one-way ticket from London - Munich, and build in two stopovers (up to 48 hours each) in Germany. He could then buy reasonably-priced advance tickets on the DB-OeBB trains from Munich - Italy (Verona, Bologna, Venice, Milan), or alternatively take the sleeper to Rome.
 
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