Advice Southern Rail expired railcard

[aceofspades]

Hi Everyone,

Hoping to seek some advice here about a fine I received on the 26/02/25 while heading to Gatwick Airport.

I was on a southern railway train heading to Gatwick airport and since the barriers didn't open they checked my ticket and asked if I had a railcard.
I answered no and they said the ticket had been booked via railcard 26-30 (Which i previously had but had been expired for almost a year).

Proceeded to give my details but warned them i was not going to be in the country for several months given i was going abroad because of family issues.

I then checked why the ticket had been bought via railcard and my girlfriend who bought the ticket told me she thought i still had a valid railcard.

Things get worse since i released in total 16 tickets over the course of time had been bought with railcard selected while it was expired.

If that wasn't enough I've just been served notice from my room in London so I'll have to come back end of April for a few days and vacate the room, after which I'll be living abroad till probably the end of the year.

I've contacted Southern rail stating i want to fully cooperate, given my email address and begged them to please contact me via email because I'm unable to receive written comms.

They asked me to upload proof of my expired railcard following a link i should have received on my statement when i was stopped, I pointed out i didn't receive any statement all the interaction was entirely verbal.

To summarize my current situation:

• I'm currently abroad with basically no valid UK address.
• Currently waiting for any sort of comm to arrive.
• I haven't told them i realized there have been numerous travel made under an expired railcard.

How should I behave in this situation, should I give them my abroad address and tell them about the other tickets or just wait for them to make the first move?

I'm panicking as I would really like to settle this out of court but I'm scared about them not being able to reach me.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[30907]

You could contact them again and ask them to send the link?

They will attempt to research your travel history, so I would let them do so. They will then write and/or mail. If the letter isn't waiting for you when you return to London, contact them again at that point. If it is, come back for advice

Finally, GTR (who own the Southern brand) will almost certainly be agreeable to settling out of court if you keep in contact, but they will take a few weeks to make the first contact.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi Everyone,

Hoping to seek some advice here about a fine I received on the 26/02/25 while heading to Gatwick Airport.

I was on a southern railway train heading to Gatwick airport and since the barriers didn't open they checked my ticket and asked if I had a railcard.
I answered no and they said the ticket had been booked via railcard 26-30 (Which i previously had but had been expired for almost a year).

Proceeded to give my details but warned them i was not going to be in the country for several months given i was going abroad because of family issues.

I then checked why the ticket had been bought via railcard and my girlfriend who bought the ticket told me she thought i still had a valid railcard.

Things get worse since i released in total 16 tickets over the course of time had been bought with railcard selected while it was expired.

If that wasn't enough I've just been served notice from my room in London so I'll have to come back end of April for a few days and vacate the room, after which I'll be living abroad till probably the end of the year.

I've contacted Southern rail stating i want to fully cooperate, given my email address and begged them to please contact me via email because I'm unable to receive written comms.

They asked me to upload proof of my expired railcard following a link i should have received on my statement when i was stopped, I pointed out i didn't receive any statement all the interaction was entirely verbal.

To summarize my current situation:

• I'm currently abroad with basically no valid UK address.
• Currently waiting for any sort of comm to arrive.
• I haven't told them i realized there have been numerous travel made under an expired railcard.

How should I behave in this situation, should I give them my abroad address and tell them about the other tickets or just wait for them to make the first move?

I'm panicking as I would really like to settle this out of court but I'm scared about them not being able to reach me.

Thanks for any advice.

I suppose you could also give them a postal address abroad (which might get them to appreciate from their point of view an e-mail address for you is better) - and / or do you have a trusted person at an address in UK that you could give to the Railway, who you could trust to open any post for you and then scan and e-mail the contents to you.
That is of course in addition to giving them your e-mail address as you have already done.

 

[aceofspades]

Thank you so much for your advice.

I did think of giving them a friend's UK address but opted not to as I didn't want to bother them.

Will definitely contact them adding my abroad address explaining I won't have a trusted UK address when I come back end of April if they haven't reached out yet.

Thanks again for the advice.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you so much for your advice.

I did think of giving them a friend's UK address but opted not to as I didn't want to bother them.

Will definitely contact them adding my abroad address explaining I won't have a trusted UK address when I come back end of April if they haven't reached out yet.

Thanks again for the advice.

Thanks - The solution to the problem you are in starts with receiving their communication - however they choose to send it unfortunately - otherwise you can't reply and if no reply is received it will escalate automatically to court. There is a process for unwinding court cases that you don't know about and get found guilty in your absence, but it's way more time consuming and complicated to deal with (examples on this forum to illustrate it !) so efforts to avoid that are important - as you no doubt appreciate.

Only you can know if bothering your friend is something you want to do, but I'd give it some serious consideration as an option.

 

[aceofspades]

Thank you, surely they must prove they attempted some form of communication before escalating to court ?

At this point I'll definitely add a UK address too to make sure I receive some form of communication.

Thanks again.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you, surely they must prove they attempted some form of communication before escalating to court ?

No. I think they can go straight to court if desired (but they don’t do that). They already presumably’caught you’.

And even if they did have to prove it they would presumably just show that they sent a letter to the address given by you when questioned.

At this point I'll definitely add a UK address too to make sure I receive some form of communication.

This seems wise if you can.

Thanks again.

 

[aceofspades]

Hi All, wanted to give an update

I have provided a friend's address and they letter finally arrived.

Dear xxxxx

On Wednesday 26 Feb 2025 at 07:19 your details were recorded by a member of our Revenue Protection Team at/near GATWICK AIRPORT railway station.

This letter is to inform you of our intention to take this case to the Magistrates Court. However, on the last page of this letter we give you the opportunity to tell us what happened from your point of view, which could influence this decision. Information you provide should be both factual and honest.

You may have been asked by a member of our revenue protection team to send in a copy of your valid ticket or railcard. This is your opportunity to do so, however please be aware that any ticket or railcard should have been purchased before boarding the train for it to be considered valid.

Please visit the link below to upload a copy of your valid ticket or railcard:

etc.etc.

now as stated in my previous post I do not own a valid railcard. My Railcard expired on the 24th of May 2024. I have a total of 16 journeys all on the same london-gatwick route which have been carried out without a valid railcard and purchased via trainline.

How should i reply?

Thanks

 

[30907]

The suggestions regularly posted by Hadders (use the search function top right) should be your guide.

Make it clear that you understand that it was your responsibility, not your GF's, to check that you paid the correct fare (OK maybe she should know your age and remember your birthday...). Especially as you have done this multiple times over 8 months.
However, they have not mentioned previous offences, so I would be inclined not to mention them, or say "I am now aware people that I may have committed the same offence previously" without being specific.

 

[aceofspades]

Thank you so much for your reply.

Since all of the tickets have been bought via my Trainline account should I not come clean about them?

I would just want this to got away altogether and not potentially solve one issue just for them to come back again about the previous instances.

I'm in the process of leaving the UK at this point, relocating at the end of the year I can't have unresolved issues.

Thanks

 

[Hadders]

My normal advice is to answer the questions they've asked you. Unless they mention other occasions then there is no requirement for you to incriminate yourself.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

My normal advice is to answer the questions they've asked you. Unless they mention other occasions then there is no requirement for you to incriminate yourself.

If as you say, the ticket you were stopped with had been on the GF's account, that's likely where they will look. If you have never been stopped on your own Trainline account, they have less reason to investigate the ticket purchase history there.

 

[aceofspades]

Thank you,

Though though i have been stopped on my trainline account as this ticket too has been purchased on my account, she's been been using my account to buy tickets as there's my bank card linked to it. Since i pay for most tickets we thought it'd be a good idea but it turned out in this mess.

so to make it clear, all journeys made with the expired railcard, including the one i've been stopped for have been made by my account.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 May 2025 ==

I have written a mockup version of the letter (please see below) if i could have your feedback please

Dear GTR Prosecution Department

Thank you for your letter dated 23rd May 2025.


It is true on Wednesday 26 Feb I travelled with an invalid ticket when I was interviewed by your revenue protections officer at the barriers at Gatwick airport. Further, I admit, that was not the first time I did so.

I am extremely sorry for this and for intentionally avoiding paying full fares on your trains. I really regret my actions and now understand that this behavior is completely unacceptable.

I have learnt a lot from this. I am ashamed of having contributed to a problem which I now understand costs railway companies significant time, money and resources whilst they work hard to provide a good service.

Going forwards, I will ensure that this never happens again. I will make sure that I have valid tickets for my entire railway journey.

To help assist, I have looked at my previous purchases. I have attempted to estimate the number of times I have committed this offence - which is approximately 16 times all between London and Gatwick Airport over the course of 8 months since my railcard expired in May 2024 (please see attached)

I am sure you have done your own investigation and I welcome the outcome of this also.

Overall, I would be extremely grateful if you would consider offering an out of court settlement to cover any outstanding fares and your administrative costs.

I look forward to hearing from you

Yours Sincerely,

 

[Hadders]

The letter reads well, a couple of minor amendments:

I would say 'I have checked my online ticket purchasing history and believe I have made 16 return journeys between London and Gatwick Airport since May 2024'.

I'd also take out the sentence about them doing the ir own investigation as it's not really needed.

 

[aceofspades]

Thank you so much, just to be clear do i have to manually write the letter on the last page of the letter they sent me and post it back? as I am not in the UK can I ask my friend to so do so it for me and sign it on my behalf?

 

[Hadders]

There's no need to write on that sheet pf paper. I'd write a letter on your computer and print it out but do make sure it has your name, address and case reference number on it so they can match it up with your case.

The letter needs to be from you, so you need to sign it not your friend. You could post the letter from overseas as long as you make sure it arrives before the deadline.

 

[aceofspades]

There's no need to write on that sheet pf paper. I'd write a letter on your computer and print it out but do make sure it has your name, address and case reference number on it so they can match it up with your case.

The letter needs to be from you, so you need to sign it not your friend. You could post the letter from overseas as long as you make sure it arrives before the deadline.

Great, in case of them offering an out of court settlement they'll send another letter? just because my friend is leaving end of week for 2 weeks so worth calling them after and providing a different address?

Thanks

 

[Hadders]

Great, in case of them offering an out of court settlement they'll send another letter? just because my friend is leaving end of week for 2 weeks so worth calling them after and providing a different address?

Thanks

Yes, they'll send another letter. It's important that you get that letter so I would give the new address and the date it's effective from in your reply.

 

[aceofspades]

can't thank you enough for all the advice, will do so

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 May 2025 ==

Final draft including amendments and change of address etc :

Reply for prosecution case: xxxxx, name, address


Dear GTR Prosecution Department

Thank you for your letter dated 23rd May 2025.


It is true on Wednesday 26 Feb I travelled with an invalid ticket when I was interviewed by your revenue protections officer at the barriers at Gatwick airport. Further, I admit, that was not the first time I did so.

I am extremely sorry for this and for intentionally avoiding paying full fares on your trains. I really regret my actions and now understand that this behavior is completely unacceptable.

I have learnt a lot from this. I am ashamed of having contributed to a problem which I now understand costs railway companies significant time, money and resources whilst they work hard to provide a good service.

Going forwards, I will ensure that this never happens again. I will make sure that I have valid tickets for my entire railway journey.
To help assist, I have checked my online ticket purchasing history and believe I have made 16 return journeys between London and Gatwick Airport since May 2024 when my railcard expired.


Overall, I would be extremely grateful if you would consider offering an out of court settlement to cover any outstanding fares and your administrative costs.

I look forward to hearing from you

If replying after the 31st of May Please send your reply to New address

Yours Sincerely,



xxxxx

 

[Hadders]

That looks ok to me. Please do let us know the outcome of your case as it helps us to help oythers in future.

 

[aceofspades]

will definitely do, thanks again!

 

[aceofspades]

Hi All,

I haven't received a reply yet, just conscious of the fact it's been a month and they now have just a month left before they can potentially bring me to court.
I'd really like to avoid receiving a SSJ together with a reply, should i chase them? is this timeframe to reply normal?

Thanks

 

[Hadders]

I believe GTR has a backlog at the moment, it's not really in your interests to chase them. If they want to prosecute you they have until 26th August to lay papers before the court so there is still planty of time yet.

 

[aceofspades]

Thank you, apologies the wait is stressing me out

 

[aceofspades]

Hi All, just wanted to give an update, I have received (and paid) an out of court settlement of £195.60

Thank you all for your help really appreciated. I've made a copy of the transaction receipt which i'll keep.

My only concern is the settlement amount seems a bit low and I'm now worried they might have taken into consideration the single offence.

Is there any chance they could come back for the other ones at a later stage?

Thanks

 

[John R]

They didn’t catch you on any other occasion, so they have no proof that it was you travelling.

It’s unlikely that they come back and ask about the other times, but if they do then come back here immediately for advice.

(I think we’ve seen a few cases recently where previous instances have not been followed up before making the settlement offer when we might have expected them to be.)