Advice please re. accepted easement - Thameslink engineering works

[ngood77]

Hi guys,

I’m intending to travel between Tonbridge (TON) and Elstree & Borehamwood (ELS) on 21st December which is the first day of Thameslink’s engineering works.

I don't want to use the suggested routes as they involve lengthy replacement bus journeys with all the issues that come with that. And I don’t want to pay more than the cost of the train ticket (£17.10, Network Railcard).

The below page states that my off peak return ticket will be accepted between Kings Cross St Pancras and High Barnet :-

Engineering works: Thameslink Weekend | National Rail

Major engineering work affecting the Thameslink network from Saturday 21 December until Sunday 29 December. See details of routes affected by planned engineering works, including when they take effect, alternative timetables, advice for alternative travel, including info about engineering work...

www.nationalrail.co.uk

This is an attractive alternative for me as I can break my journey at High Barnet and then use the 107 bus to get to Borehamwood.

Will my ticket also be accepted from London Bridge to High Barnet rather than starting at Kings Cross St Pancras ?

Will my ticket be accepted on the 107 bus ?

If not to one or both of those questions I’d like to understand why not.

And if one or more of these are acceptable then how do I handle challenges from gate staff ?

Thank you very much in advance !

Nick.

 

[JonathanH]

Will my ticket also be accepted from London Bridge to High Barnet rather than starting at Kings Cross St Pancras ?

A ticket from Tonbridge to Elstree & Borehamwood has a Maltese Cross so is already valid on the underground between London Bridge and Kings Cross St Pancras.

Will my ticket be accepted on the 107 bus ?

No.

That can't be read from the information on the engineering work alternatives. It appears that the easement to use the underground is for people to make their own way to the relevant stations.

 

[Watershed]

Both fare routes for this journey have a Maltese Cross, which means a cross-London transfer between any two 'appropriate' Underground, DLR, Elizabeth line or Thameslink stations is already included. Appropriate stations for this journey would of course include London Bridge and St Pancras. Your ticket should automatically work the barriers at London Bridge so there should be no need for any discussions.

At High Barnet they should be aware of the ticket acceptance and let you through the barrier manually; if there are any issues, show them the NRE or Thameslink pages stating the ticket acceptance. Sometimes the TfL status pages also show this, in case they try to claim that NRE/Thameslink "have nothing to do with TfL" (I've heard variations on that theme before...). In the worst case scenario, touch out (preferably using an Oyster card since it is impossible to get TfL contactless journey history at the moment) and complain to TfL to get the maximum fare refunded.

Unfortunately there's nothing there which suggests NR tickets will be accepted on the 107 bus - the only ticket acceptance on local bus services (as opposed to rail replacement buses) appears to be between West Hampstead Thameslink and St Pancras. I think the idea is that since there are rail replacement buses serving all of the stations, you don't need to use local bus services (it's just a question of convenience).

 

[ngood77]

A ticket from Tonbridge to Elstree & Borehamwood has a Maltese Cross so is already valid on the underground between London Bridge and Kings Cross St Pancras.


No.

That can't be read from the information on the engineering work alternatives. It appears that the easement to use the underground is for people to make their own way to the relevant stations.

Many thanks Jonathan. Am I permitted to break my journey on the Northern Line to/from High Barnet ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2024 ==

Both fare routes for this journey have a Maltese Cross, which means a cross-London transfer between any two 'appropriate' Underground, DLR, Elizabeth line or Thameslink stations is already included. Appropriate stations for this journey would of course include London Bridge and St Pancras. Your ticket should automatically work the barriers at London Bridge so there should be no need for any discussions.

At High Barnet they should be aware of the ticket acceptance and let you through the barrier manually; if there are any issues, show them the NRE or Thameslink pages stating the ticket acceptance. Sometimes the TfL status pages also show this, in case they try to claim that NRE/Thameslink "have nothing to do with TfL" (I've heard variations on that theme before...). In the worst case scenario, touch out (preferably using an Oyster card since it is impossible to get TfL contactless journey history at the moment) and complain to TfL to get the maximum fare refunded.

Unfortunately there's nothing there which suggests NR tickets will be accepted on the 107 bus - the only ticket acceptance on local bus services (as opposed to rail replacement buses) appears to be between West Hampstead Thameslink and St Pancras. I think the idea is that since there are rail replacement buses serving all of the stations, you don't need to use local bus services (it's just a question of convenience).

Thank you very much, Watershed, much appreciated.

 

[30907]

Many thanks Jonathan. Am I permitted to break my journey on the Northern Line to/from High Barnet ?

TfL don't do break of journey on the tube - if you stop short of High Barnet you will have to pay from there (by bus one fare will cover you to destination)

 

[ngood77]

(by bus one fare will cover you to destination)

Thanks. Please could you elaborate on the above ?

 

[30907]

Thanks. Please could you elaborate on the above ?

Sorry, realise you are from outside the Zones. It's called a Hopper fare

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/bus-and-tram-fares#on-this-page-0

 

[JonathanH]

It might be worth standing back a little from what has been asked here.

An off-peak day return from Tonbridge to Elstree & Borehamwood is £17.10 with a Network Railcard, but, because the 107 bus isn't included, the combined cost of getting to High Barnet then taking the 107 would be £18.85.

At that point, it is just easier for the original poster to simply buy an off-peak day travelcard from Tonbridge for £18.30, and any ambiguity about what is, and isn't, valid all falls away in any case because all the travel is within the London zones.

 

[ngood77]

Sorry, realise you are from outside the Zones. It's called a Hopper fare

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/bus-and-tram-fares#on-this-page-0

Ah yes, aware of that thanks. But it has the hour time limit so wouldn’t work for me.

Based on an earlier reply it seems I can break from the tube at Kings X St Pancras and then recommence my journey using Thameslink to London Bridge later on. Or will the gate expect me to pass through within some sort of ‘reasonable time’ ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2024 ==

It might be worth standing back a little from what has been asked here.

An off-peak day return from Tonbridge to Elstree & Borehamwood is £17.10 with a Network Railcard, but, because the 107 bus isn't included, the combined cost of getting to High Barnet then taking the 107 would be £18.85.

At that point, it is just easier for the original poster to simply buy an off-peak day travelcard from Tonbridge for £18.30, and any ambiguity about what is, and isn't, valid all falls away in any case because all the travel is within the London zones.

I’d lazily assumed ELS was so far out it wasn’t in a zone, silly me. That’s the answer then, especially as I’d be using the 107 on the way back too. Thanks for pointing this out

 

[Watershed]

Ah yes, aware of that thanks. But it has the hour time limit so wouldn’t work for me.

Based on an earlier reply it seems I can break from the tube at Kings X St Pancras and then recommence my journey using Thameslink to London Bridge later on. Or will the gate expect me to pass through within some sort of ‘reasonable time’ ?

It's an hour's time limit from the first touch onto a bus, to the last touch onto a bus. The journey itself can continue beyohe last touch-on within an hour as long as you don't change again.

 

[ngood77]

I would have attempted a blag on the bus but for £1.20 extra it’s not worth the bother.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2024 ==

It's an hour's time limit from the first touch onto a bus, to the last touch onto a bus. The journey itself can continue beyohe last touch-on within an hour as long as you don't change again.

Indeed but I’d want longer than that for the break of journey. All academic now anyhow, but good to know.

 

[talldave]

I would have attempted a blag on the bus but for £1.20 extra it’s not worth the bother.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2024 ==


Indeed but I’d want longer than that for the break of journey. All academic now anyhow, but good to know.

You're in luck, the Hopper time limit is actually 62 minutes ! If TfL only resolve to minute accuracy, I'm not sure whether the limit is actually 61m 59s or 62m 59s.

I unexpectedly scraped a 61 minute £0 bus fare on Sunday on a bus, train, bus journey.

 

[miklcct]

You're in luck, the Hopper time limit is actually 62 minutes ! If TfL only resolve to minute accuracy, I'm not sure whether the limit is actually 61m 59s or 62m 59s.

I unexpectedly scraped a 61 minute £0 bus fare on Sunday on a bus, train, bus journey.

I just barely made a 62 minute £0 journey a while ago for a bus train bus bus journey from Heathrow to Dollis Hill, using the routing X140 - Elizabeth line - 112 - 16 (that place was only served by 16, 232 and 245, so no direct change from the Elizabeth line outside Zone 1) with the intention of making it, but with an unexpected long wait for the 16.

Otherwise it would be a waste of money to take the X140 at the beginning.