Tazi Hupefi
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Ah, great. Wouldn't say too much more at the moment until you've got your confirmation!
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Advice Only for Greater Anglia - Delay Repay Fraud
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So, I got the dreaded letter today saying being investigated and do I admit to claiming incorrectly...im also after a settlement agreement as like many, I cant have my job at risk. How did you word the response, for example not admitting to fraudently claiming but just give me a figure and I will pay whatever? I feel sick with worry and dont want it to go any further, the letter is scary. Did they respond quickly with a figure? Thanks
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Hi,
sorry for the delayed response, I’ve been busy.
I never admitted guilt throughout any of my correspondence with GA. the person I was emailing provided some examples of instances where their gate data directly contradicted the trains/times I had claimed. I advised that these instances represented a tiny proportion of the claims where I may have been misunderstood/mistaken and I refused to comment on specific instances as I could not recollect details of 12+ months ago, however I always maintained the vast majority of my claims were valid based on failings in the GA service.
I offered GA to review the claims they we’re seeking compensation for (I.e they could seek compensation for those they had evidence were contrary my claims as these may be invalid but these were not fraudulent and were genuine mistakes/misunderstandings of GA policy) however they basically ignored all my responses and said...we are looking to seek £x as compensation and in later mails advised that the case was ready for escalation to police/courts, hence I settled for it to go away.
I even asked if they would waive the admin fee (£200 from memory) as, despite they had evidence to prove some claims were not valid (if not fraudulent), it was all based on the failings of GA and I wished i was never put in a situation by them that I had to claim for anything ...got ignored and got the same ‘we’re looking for £X in full’
does that answer your question? I exchanged a lot of emails with GA and I felt they basically applied pressure of this going further and ignored everything I said until I had to make a decision about whether it was worth risking going further.
regarding the later post about there being a guilt element to me not attending the forum, not at all.
I have openly admitted a portion of my claims were fraudulent (to this forum if not to GA) and revisited enough times to, I had thought, answer any questions surrounding the process I followed. I did this as a courtesy as coming to this forum was the reason I managed to realise the crappy letter GA had sent me was genuine and not some scam.
apologies I’m not a rail enthusiast so I’ll check back in for any further questions relating to my situation but otherwise wish you all well in your endeavours.
Shawshank
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Hi,
yes I had confirmation the matter was closed when funds received by treasury. Took longer than the 1-3 days advertised however.
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Hi,
I got all responses within 1-2 working days. I dealt with a person at GA who has been named on this thread but forget his name.
I basically emailed and said I’d received the letter and denied that the claims were fraudulent and were all made honestly to the best of my knowledge at the time, however given the vast majority were 12+ months old I could not offer specific circumstances surrounded individual events
GA promptly replied asking for a sum in order to close the matter.
I probably argued the toss for 3-4 weeks before accepting I’d be better to pay so I’m sure you’ll be fine.
Shawshank
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I originally asked for a list of the claims they believed to be fraudulent, which they provided along with gate tap times. They ignored all my other queries in the mail and simply asked me how I would like to proceed. They followed up with a figure and some payment details. Sent the money and then get confirmation following day saying case closed.
It's pointless trying to argue or negotiate a lower fee for them as they believe all your claims are fraudulent if you've been flagged, even with correct gate timestamps. They will threaten to escalate to court, which is the last thing most people want, and pressure for the entire claim period back. I know how you feel as I felt the same originally.
Basically, just ask what claims they believe to be fraud, the sum total of them and that you are happy to repay for any mistakes you may have made when claiming. Don't admit to anything, whether you intentionally or unintentionally claimed the wrong train.
Thank you so much, thats been really helpful!
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Thank you, praying I get the same kind of response - terrified of court action.
Tazi Hupefi
On Moderation
If some of your claims are actually dodgy / fraudulent, breathe! I'm sure you will get a settlement. If you want one, just reply to them apologising for your lapse of judgement on some occasions, and offer to repay an amount they feel is appropriate in the circumstances. I'm certain they'll accept. It's going to cost you though, it seems to be a case of repaying an amount that equates to ALL of your claims (even genuine ones) since 2019 plus a couple of hundred in admin / investigation fees. Obviously don't do it again!
But if all of your claims are definitely genuine, you shouldn't really settle just to make it all go away. This forum can help people who are genuinely innocent weigh up alternative approaches.
This forum doesn't (always!) judge, so you can be fairly honest, just don't give any identifying details.
Only people who refuse to engage or pay a settlement seem to have the police involved.
NotGreaterA
Member
No one has had police involved, it's all been threats so far.
Tazi Hupefi
On Moderation
That's not correct. People have been pulled in for police interviews under caution and had BTP contact them directly, including on this forum. One particular user even shared their letter from the police which seemed to refer to an Operation codename.
You should read the whole thread to find the person who did indeed get “invited” to a “voluntary” interview with the BTP.
Haywain
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There was someone earlier in the thread who had been contacted by the police, so not all threats.
Don't worry too much. I was also worried sick initially but I responded by email saying that my claims were clearly not without error given the evidence they provided with gate entry times etc, and then asking what my options were in terms of repaying. I received an email after a few days with a settlement figure which was nowhere near the 2 years worth of claims and an admin fee which was also lower than many have suggested here. It does make me believe that the fees charged are somewhat at the discretion of the admin person at GA though as it looks like those who have argued their cases are getting charged a lot more...
Surprised at the amount of new posters to this thread. I received "the letter" over 3 months ago - GA must be pumping out these out by the thousands by now.
They're getting ballsy with their ubiquitous 'admin fee'; the going rate on here seems the 200 sovs mark, that's 4x what they trousered from me in Jan. Kurching!
They're getting ballsy with their ubiquitous 'admin fee'; the going rate on here seems the 200 sovs mark, that's 4x what they trousered from me in Jan. Kurching!
Was that because they didnt want to pay a settlement or want to cooperate?
WesternLancer
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See post #884 on 15 March - scan of letter from Police to a woman then seeks advice on this thread. Uploaded copy of letter attached to her post.
Tazi Hupefi
On Moderation
They ignored GA completely I believe.
Anyone who genuinely cooperates is highly unlikely to find themselves in any trouble with the police, and it's all handled by a financial settlement in lieu of criminal action, which is a fair outcome if there is genuine fraud involved.
WesternLancer
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Yes, post #884 I suspect is the one you mean
Tazi Hupefi
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Probably depends on how many claims / amount of money involved.
WesternLancer
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I think they said they ignored the GA letters, and then got contacted by BTP. See the posts around when she posted it for more info, ie about 15 march on this thread, following post #884
Thank you! Just praying I get the same kind of response back. Not worried about what I need to pay, just want it to disappear so I can destress a bit
Absolutely, totally agree!!
I'm sure you'll be fine. Just don't give them a reason to get their backs up.
As I and others have said, be apologetic and offer to repay for any mistakes you may have made when claiming.
Once that mail is sent just wait 1-3 days for a reply. Nothing else you can do so don't let it trouble you too much.
I wonder if (and I have no evidence to support it it is purely a thought) they provide evidence and a settlement based on that when they have it, but if they don’t have evidence (or have yet to find / organise it) they just set the price of everything plus an admin fee. Does this correlate with paper vs smart card I wonder.
it’s interesting to see settlement figures of selected claims rather than everything as that isn’t necessarily consistent and one must question what is different about those claims.
it’s interesting to see settlement figures of selected claims rather than everything as that isn’t necessarily consistent and one must question what is different about those claims.
Yes, this one I recall. Sarah321 had a letter from BTP but that's the only post here I've seen get that far. Everyone else seems to have settled or playing the waiting game, right?
Oh, I went back to AH at GA and asked how they reached 20 as an average number of claims over a certain period when so many people have been sent the same letter. He said only those people who have made fraudulent claims have been contacted. And just like that, with no proof, they've labelled everyone who's made a claim as a fraudster.
But still. Good to know that GA have their best man on it.
I think you're onto something there. I have a paper ticket and when I was finally offered a settlement, it was for total claims (which I will refuse to pay).
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I’m obviously only 1 case however my settlement figure happened to closely match the sum of every claim I had submitted in the ~18 months of season ticket ownership (the first 12 months was a paper ticket, the remainder smart card)
plus of course the £200 admin fee. My total claims for the period were just over £600.
i would be interested to hear what threshold they are using to investigate this, as I definitely did not claim as often as I should/could have done given the tragic service on my route.
Certainly this whole episode has made me say to others that still commute daily who claim when they are delayed to ensure they never, ever make a single error when claiming as it may cost them the entirety of the value of their claims for years!
If you made only errors and did not commit fraud then you shouldn’t have settled.
NotGreaterA
Member
GA playing poker with a 3❤️ and 7♣️ clubs in their hand.
It doesn’t matter.
In effect you’re legally claiming financial compensation from a business or organisation for loss that you have suffered (Usually time in the case of delay repay). YOU are responsible for ensuring that your claim is both accurate and legitimate.
For example a simple mistake of accidentally putting “31 mins” as the delay instead of “21 mins” effects the payout, it doubles for the sake of one digit.
Haywain
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But not against anyone with a hand full of aces.
Making a mistake with a claim is not a fraudulent act, and if you do make a mistake, which is only natural once or twice, it’s up to the company to dismiss the claim when it comes in.
Tazi Hupefi
On Moderation
Making a genuine mistake may not be a fraudulent act, agreed. However, there is clearly still (civil) liability if a claim is paid by Greater Anglia in good faith, based on incorrect information supplied by the customer. For a handful of invalid claims, it wouldn't be proportional really to proceed in my view, but if there's more than a few, I don't think you could really grumble too loudly about simply paying some of the amount back.
An out of court settlement would still be an appropriate response in my view, (in fact the Civil Procedure Rules encourage both parties to try to ensure that the matter is resolved out of court), although I'd expect the settlement amount to be significantly less than for someone making fraudulent claims. Worst that would happen is a CCJ against the customer though, should it get to court in these circumstances.
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To try and bring some semblance of order to proceedings we're going to try and run two threads on this topic for the time being. This thread is for advice only to those who have been contacted by Great Anglia. That is to say it is to help people understand what has happened, whether they should consider settling, whether they may wish to consider fighting, whether it may be time to seek professional legal assistance, etc. It is not to discuss the wider issues brought about by GA's behaviour around whether they are acting fairly or unfairly, whether this is some sort of cash grab, whether they should be punished, whether their process is right or wrong, etc etc. There is now a new thread to discuss this aspect of the issue which can be found here.
Please ensure any contributions to this thread are aimed solely at helping people who have been contacted and not discussing the wider aspects of the issue. You are more than welcome to quote something from this thread and then make a post about it in the linked thread (hit reply on the post here, copy the contents from the reply box and then paste them into the reply box on the other thread). There may well be overlap between the two threads but I think we need to make a best effort to ensure that those that need assistance can find it easily without having to wade through page after page of wider issues that aren't directly related to what they need to consider when it comes to responding to any letters they have received.
Please ensure any contributions to this thread are aimed solely at helping people who have been contacted and not discussing the wider aspects of the issue. You are more than welcome to quote something from this thread and then make a post about it in the linked thread (hit reply on the post here, copy the contents from the reply box and then paste them into the reply box on the other thread). There may well be overlap between the two threads but I think we need to make a best effort to ensure that those that need assistance can find it easily without having to wade through page after page of wider issues that aren't directly related to what they need to consider when it comes to responding to any letters they have received.
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