ADVICE ON AVOIDING PROSECUTION BY WEST MIDLANDS TRAIN FOR TRAVEL FRAUD

[WesternLancer]

Not quite the same thing because "evading" utility bills is generally not intentional, but aiui utility companies can't bill you more than 12 months ago for errors unless you obstructed them from reading the meter. Which seems semi-analagous to data mining partiucularly as often the latter uncovers misuse that was unintentional (doesn't apply in this case though).

FWIW the high risk option I alluded to a couple of times is for Ocsan to go to court and try to negotiate in person with the prosecutor pre hearing on a "blood out of stone" basis. Cannot be advised if he/she is able to pay (it's not quite as simple as just taking the ILR money because some kind of visa would presumably need renewing in the alternative albeit maybe not immediately depending on the precise reason he/she is on the 10 year route) but the only realistic chance to pay less imo. I want to be very clear to Ocsan I am not recommending this course of action and you should 100% pay if you can, but I think we're at the point now that it's worth seeing if others agree with me it could be worth a try in extremis.

Sorry. I meant the ‘bill’ for fares as part of the settlement

 

[Egg Centric]

Sorry. I meant the ‘bill’ for fares as part of the settlement

Yes, I understood what you meant. Clearly I've not made myself clear - wouldn't be the first time...

 

[Ocsan]

Very unwise for anyone seeking leave to remain to risk prosecution.

Thanks so much for this. I cannot and will not risk this. I will look for the money and pay. I can't defend this. I can't even tell my friends, even my wife that I was involved in this. However, my greatest fear is that the last email received from them suggested they are still interested in criminal prosecution. I have provided the email below. Please guide me. How can I respond to this email? Please, I don't want to make any mistakes. Please, find the email below:

hank you for your response.

Whilst investigating your case, we can see attached to your tickets you have applied a 16-17 and 16-25 Railcard we will need to see proof and proof of purchase for:
16-17 Railcard used on 276 occasions the date range of November 2023 and August 2025 so we can adjust amounts accordingly, or if necessary.



16-25 Railcard used on 6 occasions which we will need to see proof and proof of purchase between the date range of June 2022 and November 2022 so we can adjust amounts accordingly, or if necessary.



When we ask for proof of railcard this is because it could affect your case and is done before we send you any amounts, we deem you may owe.



If You have not had or held a railcard as your previous email has portrayed, please confirm.



Improper use of this facility is also classed as fraudulent activity. If you cannot provide this within the next 7 days, then the final amount will be calculated at the full cost.



Please note: West Midlands Trains takes travel fraud extremely seriously and is committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full extent of the law. Travelling on the railway with the intent to avoid paying the full fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Such an offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 and/or three months’ imprisonment and, in either case, a criminal record. It must also be considered whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006.





Kind regards,

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Thanks so much for this. I cannot and will not risk this. I will look for the money and pay.

This is very much the right way to go. A solution may be to borrow the money from a legitimate source (bank, building society, credit union, family, friends: maybe a credit card will lend to you at a reasonable rate: could your national or religious community help you out?). But whatever you do, don't go to a loan shark: that will only get you in to more trouble.

 

[Ocsan]

This is very much the right way to go. A solution may be to borrow the money from a legitimate source (bank, building society, credit union, family, friends: maybe a credit card will lend to you at a reasonable rate: could your national or religious community help you out?). But whatever you do, don't go to a loan shark: that will only get you into more trouble.

Thanks for this. I have a credit card, though not up to the amount in question. i will need to source additional funds elsewhere. I hope they will allow me to pay with a credit card.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for this. I have a credit card, though not up to the amount in question. i will need to source additional funds elsewhere. I hope they will allow me to pay with a credit card.

I would think they would allow credit card payments.

 

[Egg Centric]

Thanks for this. I have a credit card, though not up to the amount in question. i will need to source additional funds elsewhere. I hope they will allow me to pay with a credit card.

From previous threads, our experience is it's fine if it's a Visa/Mastercard (i.e. in UK everything apart from American Express).

There is still time to apply for another credit card or maybe two. You should also look at balance transfer cards so that you can avoid paying interest. Going into too much detail is probably outside the scope of this forum, but hopefully that is a helpful pointer. Soft credit searches are available.

 

[Bigdurian]

I do agree, but I wonder whether the advent of electronic railcards and tickets makes it much less likely that on an inspection it will be asked for. Waiting for people to load their ticket is one thing, but then waiting again whilst they switch to the railcard app must slow down checking considerably as against a paper check. So the railcard check gets missed, in favour of getting further down the train.

Disagree with that. Anyone working revenue becomes very familiar with how all the apps work, and how to access the railcard. Speaking for myself, I can get to a railcard in max 5 seconds on any app, about the same time it takes for someone to get it out of their physical wallet. I'm quite happy to help...

Furthermore, if someone is having trouble finding it, that's gonna make me interested as it were, and I'll be happy to spend more time waiting.... it's amazing what you find sometimes...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2025 ==

I bet you are spot on. Not so long ago I saw a guard go through my carriage with a scanner working so quickly she couldn’t possibly have looked at any actual tickets that had qr codes and presumably relied on the scanner to alert her to any irregularities.

Let the train take the strain. Some of the software is so good these days, depending on the inputs you make, it will flag everything up that you want. You don't actually have to read anything.

It's very quick

 

[WesternLancer]

Let the train take the strain. Some of the software is so good these days, depending on the inputs you make, it will flag everything up that you want. You don't actually have to read anything.

It's very quick

Yes. In its own way it was impressive to observe and probably ensured more people overall got checked.

 

[Ocsan]

Good day everyone. I am sorry to bother you again with this. Please I need to respond to WMT today. Please find below my draft. Please advise on this. I do not want to put myself into more troubles. Please guide me. Thanks

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your email.

In all honesty, I regrettably confirm that I have not held a 16–17 or 16–25 Railcard for these journeys. I also regretfully acknowledge that I wrongfully applied these discounts.

Indeed, this is a very poor decision, and I now realise the seriousness of this and how much trust I have broken by doing so.

I am truly sorry for my actions as I acted irresponsibly and without considering the consequences, and I fully accept that this was wrong. I have learned a very difficult lesson, and I give my assurance that this will never be repeated. As stated in my previous email, I have now resorted to buying my tickets one month in advance at full cost to prevent the repeat of these incidents.

I respectfully ask for your kind consideration to allow me to settle this matter directly with West Midland Trains as I am ready to pay the outstanding fare and any costs you require to resolve this without court action.

I am truly sorry for my actions and hope you will consider giving me the chance to put this right without the need to escalate the matter further. I will be very grateful if you could let me know the appropriate steps to take to settle this matter.

Thanks, in anticipation of your kind consideration.

Yours faithfully,

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Good day everyone. I am sorry to bother you again with this. Please I need to respond to WMT today. Please find below my draft. Please advise on this. I do not want to put myself into more troubles. Please guide me. Thanks

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your email.

In all honesty, I regrettably confirm that I have not held a 16–17 or 16–25 Railcard for these journeys. I also regretfully acknowledge that I wrongfully applied these discounts.

Indeed, this is a very poor decision, and I now realise the seriousness of this and how much trust I have broken by doing so.

I am truly sorry for my actions as I acted irresponsibly and without considering the consequences, and I fully accept that this was wrong. I have learned a very difficult lesson, and I give my assurance that this will never be repeated. As stated in my previous email, I have now resorted to buying my tickets one month in advance at full cost to prevent the repeat of these incidents.

I respectfully ask for your kind consideration to allow me to settle this matter directly with West Midland Trains as I am ready to pay the outstanding fare and any costs you require to resolve this without court action.

I am truly sorry for my actions and hope you will consider giving me the chance to put this right without the need to escalate the matter further. I will be very grateful if you could let me know the appropriate steps to take to settle this matter.

Thanks, in anticipation of your kind consideration.

Yours faithfully,

That looks fine. Get it off to the railway and see what they have to say.

 

[Ocsan]

That looks fine. Get it off to the railway and see what they have to say.

Ok. Thanks. I hope they will not insist on prosecution as suggested in their last email.

 

[duffield]

Ok. Thanks. I hope they will not insist on prosecution as suggested in their last email.

The following sentence in their reply indicates clearly they intend to offer you an out of court settlement, and the only question is for how much.

When we ask for proof of railcard this is because it could affect your case and is done before we send you any amounts, we deem you may owe.

Prosecution would only follow if you stopped engaging or failed to pay whatever amount they settle on.

 

[Ocsan]

The following sentence in their reply indicates clearly they intend to offer you an out of court settlement, and the only question is for how much.

Prosecution would only follow if you stopped engaging or failed to pay whatever amount they settle on.

Thanks so much. You are right. Please find below the response I got

Thank you for your response.



After investigating your purchase history, the total amount that we deem you owe is £2610.10, this includes our administration costs. This will need to be settled within the agreed arrangement by the 8th September 2025.



Payment can be made via BACS payment using the following details:



Account Name: WMT Ltd - Digital Prosecutions

Sort Code: 30 80 12

Account Number: 24429068

REF - xxxx



Make sure to put your reference number in so we can link the payment to yourself.



Following payment, please email us with confirmation of payment being made and once payment has been received, we will send a receipt and close the case down this can take up to 10 business days.



Please respond to this email within the next 7 days, to avoid further escalation.



Kind regards,

The challenge here is that it does not seem I am able to pay with a credit Card!

 

[LYradial]

Is this because this is regarded as a cash withdrawal and is subject to a limit, and also will incur interest immediately

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks so much. You are right. Please find below the response I got

Thank you for your response.



After investigating your purchase history, the total amount that we deem you owe is £2610.10, this includes our administration costs. This will need to be settled within the agreed arrangement by the 8th September 2025.


The challenge here is that it does not seem I am able to pay with a credit Card!

We did see a case on here not so long ago (earlier this summer) where someone did not wish to pay WM Trains on line for fares owed. In that case WM Trains offered to meet the passenger concerned at a staffed railway station ticket office to enable them to pay in person. They may offer you that option and that might permit payment by credit card.

Perhaps this is something you could ask if it was possible for you to do.

 

[Egg Centric]

We did see a case on hee not so long ago (earliee this summer) where someone did not wish to pay WM Trains on line for fares owed. In that case WM Trains offered to meet the passenger concerend at a staffed railway station ticket office to enable them to pay in person. They may offer you that option and that might permit payment by credit card.

Perhaps this is something you could ask if it was possible for you to do.

Also look into specialised credit cards for cash advances - see this article on Money transfer credit cards