ADVICE ON AVOIDING PROSECUTION BY WEST MIDLANDS TRAIN FOR TRAVEL FRAUD

[Egg Centric]

If that's too high, the other option (as it appears from previous posts), is court and an almost certain conviction.

There is another very high risk option (which only makes sense absolutely last ditch) I was considering mentioning if it were absolutely necessary to roll the dice but I don't consider £600 to meet that threshold so I won't, so as to avoid confusing things. Since we're only talking a couple of hundred quid "missing" then if there is no other option then it'd be far more sensible for OP to use some of the money he/she has (presumably) saved for the ILR application towards this; while we can't go into immigration matters per forum rules as a general observation there's usually a bit of leeway there about application dates so unless the plan was already to apply at the last possible moment he/she could presumably "raid" it and top it up over the course of another month or two.

It's important to be absolutely clear about the amounts involved though.

 

[Ocsan]

If that's too high, the other option (as it appears from previous posts), is court and an almost certain conviction.

Ok. Thanks. I am not going to court with them. I will be sending the reply to them tomorrow. This is my draft. Please help me review before I finally submit it.

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email dated xx August 2025, with the Reference number xxxx, regarding a travel incident that occurred on xx July 2025 while I was travelling from Coventry Station to Birmingham New Street with the West Midlands Train. Kindly accept this email as my response to your email.

On this occasion, I indeed bought my ticket online from the train after I boarded the train at Coventry, which I now realised is unacceptable.

This incidence has taught me the importance of following the ticketing requirements correctly and to avoid any further such behaviour I have now purchased a monthly ticket (copy attached). This, I trust, will reassure you of my commitment to pay the appropriate fare going forward.

Having recognised my behaviour was unacceptable, and having taken action to ensure future compliance I hope this matter can be settled without the need for court action. I would, of course, be willing to pay any outstanding fare or fares due together with your administration costs in this matter.

Thanking you in anticipation of your kind consideration.

Yours sincerely,

 

[RobertsN]

That, to me, sounds like a good response.

 

[John R]

“I now realise is unacceptable, as it must be bought before boarding.”

It’s very economical with the truth, as if they check they will see you used a different ticket to get through the gateline that morning. But I’m not sure how you address that without admitting the wider crime.

 

[Ocsan]

There is a serious trouble. Please this is the message I received this morning after i have sent them my response.

Dear Customer,

As you have failed to provide the evidence requested on xxx August 2025.

We have further investigated this matter and found 289 incidents where you have purchased fraudulent tickets at a value of £2375.05 which together with our costs of £300.00 totals £2675.05 and should you fail to provide the evidence requested or the sum of £2675.05 by 2nd September 2025 we will have no alternative but to consider passing this matter to our Prosecutions Team for legal action which will increase the amount payable.

Please respond within 7 days from the date of this email to avoid further escalation.

Kind regards,

please what can I do? This is serious.

 

[notmyrealname]

Are you able to pay the amount they're talking about? They say they will 'consider' passing the case to Prosecutions but why would they mention amounts if settling isn't an option. Wait for the experts to come along though.

 

[John R]

Don’t reply until others have commented, but in the first instance I would reply acknowledging their email, and politely asking for a list of the cases they allege are fraudulent in order that you can review them before commenting further.

 

[AlterEgo]

There is a serious trouble. Please this is the message I received this morning after i have sent them my response.

Dear Customer,

As you have failed to provide the evidence requested on xxx August 2025.

We have further investigated this matter and found 289 incidents where you have purchased fraudulent tickets at a value of £2375.05 which together with our costs of £300.00 totals £2675.05 and should you fail to provide the evidence requested or the sum of £2675.05 by 2nd September 2025 we will have no alternative but to consider passing this matter to our Prosecutions Team for legal action which will increase the amount payable.

Please respond within 7 days from the date of this email to avoid further escalation.

Kind regards,

please what can I do? This is serious.

As you are contesting the level of fraud you have been involved in you should ask for a breakdown of which journeys they have found to be fraudulent, in the first instance. I assume 289 incidents doesn't reflect the amount of times you have done this, as you said "about 36" earlier in the thread.

Have you ever held any railcards?

 

[Ocsan]

As you are contesting the level of fraud you have been involved in you should ask for a breakdown of which journeys they have found to be fraudulent, in the first instance. I assume 289 incidents doesn't reflect the amount of times you have done this, as you said "about 36" earlier in the thread.

Have you ever held any railcards?

I have never had any railcard. Indeed, I just checked my trainline app now and I realised i have also used the 16-17 card in 2023 and some occasions in 2024. I am in trouble. Please what can I do?

 

[AlterEgo]

I have never had any railcard. Indeed, I just checked my trainline app now and I realised i have also used the 16-17 card in 2023 and some occasions in 2024. I am in trouble. Please what can I do?

Have you used it 289 times?

 

[Ocsan]

Have you used it 289 times?

Honestly, I don't know. I have been working back to as far back as 2023, but I couldn't download some of the tickets.

 

[AlterEgo]

Honestly, I don't know. I have been working back to as far back as 2023, but I couldn't download some of the tickets.

You can ask them for a breakdown, but to be honest...it does look like you did it about 289 times. They will have the downloads from the retailer.

That is quite a substantial amount of fraud - a couple of thousand pounds perhaps. So, the railway will require payment of the settlement fee to cover replacement tickets and the cost of their investigation, or they will prosecute you. I'll be honest, if you do that to pretty much any other industry here, they call the police who come to your home or work and arrest you. WMT are not a great company and you probably don't feel like you are in a great position, but you do at least have the option to settle the matter out of court here instead of them calling the police or prosecuting you for the offences in court.

 

[Ocsan]

I am thinking of sending the response below. Pleae help me check if it makes sense.

Hello Sir/Madam,

Thanks for your email. I am sorry to learn that I couldn’t provide evidence required. To help me in looking for the evidence requested, I want to politely request that you provide me the details of these 289 incidents and more clarity on the issues with this incident.

I believe this will help me understand the main issues and the evidence required.

Thanks in anticipation of your kind response.

Best regards,

 

[spyinthesky]

I am thinking of sending the response below. Pleae help me check if it makes sense.

Hello Sir/Madam,

Thanks for your email. I am sorry to learn that I couldn’t provide evidence required. To help me in looking for the evidence requested, I want to politely request that you provide me the details of these 289 incidents and more clarity on the issues with this incident.

I believe this will help me understand the main issues and the evidence required.

Thanks in anticipation of your kind response.

Best regards,

To save some time it might be worth listing all the purchases that you know were valid prior to receiving a response from them.
As is so commonplace once you have selected a railcard option for a journey many retailers retain that option. You will know if you have been selecting and deselecting a railcard.
Only you and the retailer have access to the truth. More importantly, be honest with yourself.

 

[Ocsan]

To save some time it might be worth listing all the purchases that you know were valid prior to receiving a response from them.
As is so commonplace once you have selected a railcard option for a journey many retailers retain that option. You will know if you have been selecting and deselecting a railcard.
Only you and the retailer have access to the truth. More importantly, be honest with yourself.

Thanks. I am trying to do this, but I am unable to download some old tickets I have bought in the past on Trainline App (That's the only App I use), so i am unable to establish if they were bought with Railcard or not. Another issue is that, even if I borrowed and paid the amount been claimed by them. How sure am i that they won't still prosecute for crime? I am indeed in serious trouble. I have never been in this kind of situation in my life!

 

[AlterEgo]

How sure am i that they won't still prosecute for crime?

Prosecuting after settling the matter would be a clear abuse of process.

 

[John R]

Thanks. I am trying to do this, but I am unable to download some old tickets I have bought in the past on Trainline App (That's the only App I use), so i am unable to establish if they were bought with Railcard or not.

Look - you know what you were doing, and they have the records to confirm it. The chances that they are claiming for cases where a railcard wasn't selected is, IMO, pretty low. Nevertheless, it is only right and proper that they should provide you with a list of those cases as they are including them in their settlement offer. For cases which go back beyond the records you have available, I am afraid you have no option but to take their word for it.

I would change the sentence starting "I believe..." to "Once I have this information I will quickly respond confirming or otherwise whether I believe they are cases that should fall within any settlement offer."

Sometimes for cases of this size we recommend engaging with a solicitor that specialises in fare evasion cases. A quick search on this board will soon throw up a few names. However, I'm not really sure that the cost involved (typically several hundred pounds) will be worth it, as you are being offered a settlement, and I am not sure on what basis the solicitors would be able to reduce it. Others may disagree with this view though.

 

[Ocsan]

Look - you know what you were doing, and they have the records to confirm it. The chances that they are claiming for cases where a railcard wasn't selected is, IMO, pretty low. Nevertheless, it is only right and proper that they should provide you with a list of those cases as they are including them in their settlement offer. For cases which go back beyond the records you have available, I am afraid you have no option but to take their word for it.

I would change the sentence starting "I believe..." to "Once I have this information I will quickly respond confirming or otherwise whether I believe they are cases that should fall within any settlement offer."

Sometimes for cases of this size we recommend engaging with a solicitor that specialises in fare evasion cases. A quick search on this board will soon throw up a few names. However, I'm not really sure that the cost involved (typically several hundred pounds) will be worth it, as you are being offered a settlement, and I am not sure on what basis the solicitors would be able to reduce it. Others may disagree with this view though.

Thanks very much. I have contacted some solicitors and they want to charge £800 to work towards setting out of court. If I add to the amount being claimed, that will be around £3500. How can I raise this kind of money? This is crazy.

 

[John R]

Thanks very much. I have contacted some solicitors and they want to charge £800 to work towards setting out of court. If I add to the amount being claimed, that will be around £3500. How can I raise this kind of money? This is crazy.

It’s not crazy, it’s the consequence of not paying the correct fare deliberately over and over again - each one a criminal act - and not recognising that your fare evasion was leaving a nice handy digital footprint for when they finally caught up with you.

Sorry if that’s blunt, but ultimately there’s only one party that has been wronged here.

 

[Egg Centric]

Thanks very much. I have contacted some solicitors and they want to charge £800 to work towards setting out of court. If I add to the amount being claimed, that will be around £3500. How can I raise this kind of money? This is crazy.

There is very likely no point in employing solicitors unless they advise they can bring the settlement down considerably.

While this forum isn't for financial advice, if you don't have a credit card then now would be a good time to apply for one (or more), same with your wife. NOT American Express as you won't be able to use it to pay this.

If you are completely unable to pay then there is a nuclear option gamble but I sense that you'll be able to if you try hard enough.

 

[Trainman40083]

It’s not crazy, it’s the consequence of not paying the correct fare deliberately over and over again - each one a criminal act - and not recognising that your fare evasion was leaving a nice handy digital footprint for when they finally caught up with you.

Sorry if that’s blunt, but ultimately there’s only one party that has been wronged here.

Sadly true. So many people leave a digital footprint.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks very much. I have contacted some solicitors and they want to charge £800 to work towards setting out of court. If I add to the amount being claimed, that will be around £3500. How can I raise this kind of money? This is crazy.

You don't really need a solicitor. You just need to pay the company the money and it'll go away. The company has already told you what you need to do.

A solicitor could try to argue you should pay only the difference in fares but it is not clear how much this would save you nor would it possibly be worth the hassle, especially as you want to avoid a criminal record at all costs.

If you were about to apply for ILR you may wish to take the savings (it costs about £3K, my wife had to apply for it a few years back) and use some of it it to pay off your travel fraud, and start saving again for ILR. But you are where you are and I don't think you have many options here. Even you seemed to be in denial about just how much fare evasion you've been committing. I don't like West Midlands Trains very much at all, but you are not the victim here.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks very much. I have contacted some solicitors and they want to charge £800 to work towards setting out of court. If I add to the amount being claimed, that will be around £3500. How can I raise this kind of money? This is crazy.

You are already being offered an out of court settlement as I understand it.

 

[Ocsan]

Thanks so much everyone. I can see I am already in a mess. The only option available to me is to look for the money and pay. I sent them an email two days ago, asking for the details of the tickets and the type of evidence required. I also require that they send me the account number to make a payment in case I am unable to provide the required evidence. This is the response I got. It seems they are still interested in prosecution. Please, how should I respond to this. Please help me. Please.

Thank you for your response.

Whilst investigating your case, we can see attached to your tickets you have applied a 16-17 and 16-25 Railcard we will need to see proof and proof of purchase for:
16-17 Railcard used on 276 occasions the date range of November 2023 and August 2025 so we can adjust amounts accordingly, or if necessary.



16-25 Railcard used on 6 occasions which we will need to see proof and proof of purchase between the date range of June 2022 and November 2022 so we can adjust amounts accordingly, or if necessary.



When we ask for proof of railcard this is because it could affect your case and is done before we send you any amounts, we deem you may owe.



If You have not had or held a railcard as your previous email has portrayed, please confirm.



Improper use of this facility is also classed as fraudulent activity. If you cannot provide this within the next 7 days, then the final amount will be calculated at the full cost.



Please note: West Midlands Trains takes travel fraud extremely seriously and is committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full extent of the law. Travelling on the railway with the intent to avoid paying the full fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Such an offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 and/or three months’ imprisonment and, in either case, a criminal record. It must also be considered whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006.





Kind regards,

 

[WesternLancer]

Frankly it’s poor that more regular checks are not made which would detect this activity more quickly. Might even save evaders such big bills.

 

[John R]

Frankly it’s poor that more regular checks are not made which would detect this activity more quickly. Might even save evaders such big bills.

I do agree, but I wonder whether the advent of electronic railcards and tickets makes it much less likely that on an inspection it will be asked for. Waiting for people to load their ticket is one thing, but then waiting again whilst they switch to the railcard app must slow down checking considerably as against a paper check. So the railcard check gets missed, in favour of getting further down the train.

 

[WesternLancer]

I do agree, but I wonder whether the advent of electronic railcards and tickets makes it much less likely that on an inspection it will be asked for. Waiting for people to load their ticket is one thing, but then waiting again whilst they switch to the railcard app must slow down checking considerably as against a paper check. So the railcard check gets missed, in favour of getting further down the train.

I bet you are spot on. Not so long ago I saw a guard go through my carriage with a scanner working so quickly she couldn’t possibly have looked at any actual tickets that had qr codes and presumably relied on the scanner to alert her to any irregularities.

 

[Egg Centric]

Frankly it’s poor that more regular checks are not made which would detect this activity more quickly. Might even save evaders such big bills.

Not quite the same thing because "evading" utility bills is generally not intentional, but aiui utility companies can't bill you more than 12 months ago for errors unless you obstructed them from reading the meter. Which seems semi-analagous to data mining partiucularly as often the latter uncovers misuse that was unintentional (doesn't apply in this case though).

FWIW the high risk option I alluded to a couple of times is for Ocsan to go to court and try to negotiate in person with the prosecutor pre hearing on a "blood out of stone" basis. Cannot be advised if he/she is able to pay (it's not quite as simple as just taking the ILR money because some kind of visa would presumably need renewing in the alternative albeit maybe not immediately depending on the precise reason he/she is on the 10 year route) but the only realistic chance to pay less imo. I want to be very clear to Ocsan I am not recommending this course of action and you should 100% pay if you can, but I think we're at the point now that it's worth seeing if others agree with me it could be worth a try in extremis.

 

[AlterEgo]

Very unwise for anyone seeking leave to remain to risk prosecution.

 

[Egg Centric]

Very unwise for anyone seeking leave to remain to risk prosecution.

100% agree with that and that's why I'm trying to be as careful as possible about how I phrase it. This is the hail mary option if someone truely cannot afford things otherwise. The theory being that the prosecuter in person may take more sympathy than someone in an office if someone turns up with a family in tow and puppy dog eyes and/or have more room for a back and forth. There is also the possibilty of WMT incompetence meaning it would be settled for far less than it ought to be...

I would say (again in generalities rather than this specific case) if the option were between prosecution and expiring leave to remain, then prosecution is better though. Many visas are just as much to renew as ILR is to apply for. And no one with any sense should be in the UK outside the rules the way the hostile enviornment is getting... hostiler...