Advice Needed

[leicetergl33]

Hi. I would rather not go into specifics on what happened publicly, although I have a question. If a member of staff (not a ticket inspector, someone in the station) did not ask for personal details but did scan my ticket, is it likely they could still put us forward for investigation / prosecution? Want to make it clear that no details were taken.

I know people on here can be quick to judge and I have my reaosns for not wanting to share further information. Please looking for some advice on the above / if anyone has seen this happen before. THank you !

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes, that can happen. It’s not really possible to say anything else about it though as you’ve decided not to share the details with us.

 

[Western Sunset]

To be honest, I think folks on here aren't quick to judge. They look at each request for help dispassionately.

 

[leicetergl33]

Yes, that can happen. It’s not really possible to say anything else about it though as you’ve decided not to share the details with us.

Is it something you have seen before, being an established member?

 

[Lewisham2221]

Hi. I would rather not go into specifics on what happened publicly, although I have a question. If a member of staff (not a ticket inspector, someone in the station) did not ask for personal details but did scan my ticket, is it likely they could still put us forward for investigation / prosecution? Want to make it clear that no details were taken.

I know people on here can be quick to judge and I have my reaosns for not wanting to share further information. Please looking for some advice on the above / if anyone has seen this happen before. THank you !

If this was an e-ticket, purchased online, yes. The barcode provides enough information to identify the retailer and, from there, the account holder.

Is it something you have seen before, being an established member?

It is something that happens often, yes.

 

[leicetergl33]

I purchased a ticket with a railcard when I didn't have one. I had another standard ticket so showed them this however I have done this before (bought ticket without having a railcard) and honestly I know its stupid and definitely wont be doing it again.

I haven't been able to find any threads on here where its happened as they didnt ask for my details at all. I bought a railcard straight after. Few questions:

How would they reach out to me without my details?
Would the fact ive bought a railcard and will do it the correct way going forward help me if they do prosecute?
How often are out of court settlements offered? I'll be honest i've done it quite a few times. But regular members, do you see if often where out of court settlements are refused? Ive never had a fine or anything before.

Please would appreciate no judgement as I know what I have done is wrong and will most definitely act the correct way going forward.

 

[AlterEgo]

I purchased a ticket with a railcard when I didn't have one. I had another standard ticket so showed them this

Why would you happen to have another standard ticket to hand, but also purchase one with a railcard too? I’m a bit lost.

however I have done this before (bought ticket without having a railcard) and honestly I know its stupid and definitely wont be doing it again.

I haven't been able to find any threads on here where its happened as they didnt ask for my details at all. I bought a railcard straight after. Few questions:

How would they reach out to me without my details?

They have them from your ticket, and may submit a data request to ticket retailers to see how many times you’ve done it before.

Would the fact ive bought a railcard and will do it the correct way going forward help me if they do prosecute?

Probably, although it’s not a defence of course.

How often are out of court settlements offered? I'll be honest i've done it quite a few times. But regular members, do you see if often where out of court settlements are refused?

It depends on the train company. Most will settle. A few settle less often, such as Chiltern or TfL.

 

[leicetergl33]

Im not sure what train company these people were in the station and not on the train. It was a London station but the train company isnt TFL. What does that mean? Also, without my details (e.g. address) how would they send me a letter? My email is super clogged with spam and i miss a lot of emails - how do i make sure i recieve something?

 

[Skimpot flyer]

If your username is any clue, Leicester is served by CrossCountry and East Midlands Railway.
They can identify the retailer through which your ticket was purchased, so obtaining your address would be easy

 

[Lewisham2221]

I purchased a ticket with a railcard when I didn't have one. I had another standard ticket so showed them this however I have done this before (bought ticket without having a railcard) and honestly I know its stupid and definitely wont be doing it again.

I haven't been able to find any threads on here where its happened as they didnt ask for my details at all. I bought a railcard straight after. Few questions:

How would they reach out to me without my details?
Would the fact ive bought a railcard and will do it the correct way going forward help me if they do prosecute?
How often are out of court settlements offered? I'll be honest i've done it quite a few times. But regular members, do you see if often where out of court settlements are refused? Ive never had a fine or anything before.

Please would appreciate no judgement as I know what I have done is wrong and will most definitely act the correct way going forward.

It's difficult to say without having the full story.

If the station staff scanned the discounted ticket and you were unable to show the railcard, they can highlight this on the scanning device, which will show on internal systems.

It's then up to the revenue department how to proceed. If they choose to follow up on the highlighted scan, they can use the ticket number to identify the site/app where you purchased your ticket. They can then request your account information, including your purchase history and your contact details.

Whether any of this happens, and how the train company chooses to deal with you, can vary greatly depending on the circumstances.

It's good to see that you have now purchased a Railcard. This may help you negotiate a slightly more lenient outcome, but this is by no means guaranteed.

The cost of a railcard is pretty much always going to be lower than any penalty for getting caught travelling on railcard discounted tickets without a railcard.

 

[AlterEgo]

Im not sure what train company these people were in the station and not on the train. It was a London station but the train company isnt TFL. What does that mean? Also, without my details (e.g. address) how would they send me a letter? My email is super clogged with spam and i miss a lot of emails - how do i make sure i recieve something?

They will have your billing address from your payment method if nothing else.

 

[leicetergl33]

thanks all. i dont live at the billing address on my card anymore - when the company write, is there usually a time limit in responding? can a letter come through at any time over the coming years or is there time limits from when journeys were taken that companies can prosecute

 

[Fawkes Cat]

thanks all. i dont live at the billing address on my card anymore - when the company write, is there usually a time limit in responding? can a letter come through at any time over the coming years or is there time limits from when journeys were taken that companies can prosecute

My email is super clogged with spam and i miss a lot of emails - how do i make sure i recieve something?

Taking these points together, I'd say the following
- in practical terms, the railway have up to six months from the date of the incident to start a prosecution
- starting a prosecution means that the railway need to be in touch with the court, and the court has to try to get in touch with you. One practical implication of this is that it can be a bit more than six months before the court are in touch with you. Another, more important, one is that the court's letter doesn't have to reach you - they need to have tried to get it to you. If they've sent it out to the best address they have for you and you don't get to see it, you may find yourself prosecuted and convicted - and not know anything about it until the court starts chasing you for the fine that you owe
- so it's important that you make every effort you can to obtain post from the address that is on record, and to keep an eye on your email. The email is easy - you'll just have to look closely, even if that does mean looking through loads of spam. The post may be more difficult, Given that you know what the address was, maybe you can ask the current occupants to send anything on to you or call round to check? Royal Mail's redirection service may also be helpful - see https://www.royalmail.com/personal/receiving-mail/redirection
- at the worst, if you are convicted without your knowledge, then it is possible if you act quickly after finding this out to have the verdict set aside and the case heard again. But that's all pretty complicated and it's not somewhere you will want to go by choice!

(edited for typo)

 

[AlterEgo]

thanks all. i dont live at the billing address on my card anymore - when the company write, is there usually a time limit in responding? can a letter come through at any time over the coming years or is there time limits from when journeys were taken that companies can prosecute

They have six months to lay papers before a magistrates’ court if they’re prosecuting for a summary-only offence (nearly all railway matters are summary-only).

 

[leicetergl33]

6 months from date of travel? as they didnt take my details or anything.. i know someone on this thread say it happens often but i havent seen a thread of anyone getting prosecuted / letter sent to them if they werent stopped and details given

 

[island]

6 months from date of travel? as they didnt take my details or anything.. i know someone on this thread say it happens often but i havent seen a thread of anyone getting prosecuted / letter sent to them if they werent stopped and details given

Yes, 6 months from the date of travel.

The courts are remarkably good at tracking down people who have incurred fines and making sure they are settled.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

... i dont live at the billing address on my card anymore...

@leicetergl33. Welcome to the forum. A clarificatory question. Why wouldn't you have updated this detail?

 

[Haywain]

i dont live at the billing address on my card anymore

That's probably in breach of the terms and conditions if the card/account.

 

[leicetergl33]

Yes, 6 months from the date of travel.

The courts are remarkably good at tracking down people who have incurred fines and making sure they are settled.

the thing is i havent incurred a fine. so lets say someones travel history is investigated, is it still only 6 months from travel still

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jun 2024 ==

have people seen it regularly that people are fined etc even though their details werent taken or even asked for? is this common that ppl recieve letters even though they werent even asked for any info and were let go?

 

[guilbert]

I'm not really following what happened - you didn't show them the discounted ticket but showed another one? Was that invalid or just bought or something? Was anything said at time time? If not I think you've very unlikely to hear from them.

 

[AlterEgo]

the thing is i havent incurred a fine. so lets say someones travel history is investigated, is it still only 6 months from travel still

It depends. Some people commit fraud, such as refunding tickets they shouldn’t be or doing other things with their bookings thay are clearly dishonest, like claiming delay repay fraudulently. Fraud is not limited to a 6 month timescale, but railway specific legislation usually is.

have people seen it regularly that people are fined etc even though their details werent taken or even asked for? is this common that ppl recieve letters even though they werent even asked for any info and were let go?

Yes, these can be generated even without a check, by pulling an audit trail from the retailer of suspicious transactions.

 

[leicetergl33]

if it was a london station, although they didnt stop me on the train but instead in the station, what company would it come from? it was a thameslink train but they stopped me before that

 

[AlterEgo]

if it was a london station, although they didnt stop me on the train but instead in the station, what company would it come from? it was a thameslink train but they stopped me before that

We don't know, because you haven't told us the station. We need to know that to give you the right answer.

 

[Lewisham2221]

if it was a london station, although they didnt stop me on the train but instead in the station, what company would it come from? it was a thameslink train but they stopped me before that

Without a full, clear and accurate breakdown of events, it's impossible for anybody to give you a more accurate answer to any of your questions.

At the very least:

• where you were travelling to and from,
• what train you travelled on,
• what station this occurred at,
• what ticket or tickets you had (full details: single/return, anytime/off peak/advance, what railcard discount you used etc),
• what ticket you showed to the staff member,
• if it was an e-ticket on your phone or e-ticket printed at home or orange/green paper ticket with a barcode or orange/green credit card sized card ticket,
• if the ticket was just checked visually by the staff member or scanned with a handheld device,
• anything the staff member said to you about your ticket

 

[leicetergl33]

Without a full, clear and accurate breakdown of events, it's impossible for anybody to give you a more accurate answer to any of your questions.

At the very least:

• where you were travelling to and from,
• what train you travelled on,
• what station this occurred at,
• what ticket or tickets you had (full details: single/return, anytime/off peak/advance, what railcard discount you used etc),
• what ticket you showed to the staff member,
• if it was an e-ticket on your phone or e-ticket printed at home or orange/green paper ticket with a barcode or orange/green credit card sized card ticket,
• if the ticket was just checked visually by the staff member or scanned with a handheld device,
• anything the staff member said to you about your ticket

london st pancras to gatwick
thameslink
london st pancras
single w 26-30 railcard
showed a ticket i had just bought (no railcard) but didnt scan in with that one
e ticket
scanned
said it wasnt the one i scanned in with. said its fine as the ticket i shown was valid regardless and then let me go

no details asked for. and they didnt ask me in the train they asked me in the station. not sure who they were

 

[Lewisham2221]

london st pancras to gatwick
thameslink
london st pancras
single w 26-30 railcard
showed a ticket i had just bought (no railcard) but didnt scan in with that one
e ticket
scanned
said it wasnt the one i scanned in with. said its fine as the ticket i shown was valid regardless and then let me go

no details asked for. and they didnt ask me in the train they asked me in the station. not sure who they were

So you purchased a railcard discounted ticket and used that to get through the barriers, then when you saw somebody manually checking tickets, you purchased a new ticket without the railcard discount, and it is this new ticket which they scanned?

So long as the ticket that was actually scanned by the member of staff was valid and wasn't obviously suspicious (eg only to the next station) then it's unlikely anything will come of the matter - people who hold several tickets often scan/present the wrong ticket, so it's unlikely that the fact you got through the barriers with a different ticket would raise any real suspicion.

 

[leicetergl33]

So you purchased a railcard discounted ticket and used that to get through the barriers, then when you saw somebody manually checking tickets, you purchased a new ticket without the railcard discount, and it is this new ticket which they scanned?

So long as the ticket that was actually scanned by the member of staff was valid and wasn't obviously suspicious (eg only to the next station) then it's unlikely anything will come of the matter - people who hold several tickets often scan/present the wrong ticket, so it's unlikely that the fact you got through the barriers with a different ticket would raise any real suspicion.

it was just to the next station unfortunately. i know its very stupid and wont do it again but what do you think they do in this situation? who do you think they were? as it wasnt on the train but thet ticket they saw was for a thameslink, would it be GTR? in what cases would it be TFL? I am seeing that TFL is not leniant at all in the threads and want to see what determines which one it would be. i only travel on thameslink but this didnt happen on the train

 

[30907]

it was just to the next station unfortunately. i know its very stupid and wont do it again but what do you think they do in this situation? who do you think they were? as it wasnt on the train but thet ticket they saw was for a thameslink, would it be GTR? in what cases would it be TFL? I am seeing that TFL is not leniant at all in the threads and want to see what determines which one it would be. i only travel on thameslink but this didnt happen on the train

St Pancras is a National Rail station, so TfL are not involved.

 

[AlterEgo]

it was just to the next station unfortunately. i know its very stupid and wont do it again but what do you think they do in this situation? who do you think they were? as it wasnt on the train but thet ticket they saw was for a thameslink, would it be GTR? in what cases would it be TFL? I am seeing that TFL is not leniant at all in the threads and want to see what determines which one it would be. i only travel on thameslink but this didnt happen on the train

Really the best way around all of this is to act honestly in future. You are more worried than you probably should be so let that be your lesson.

 

[MotCO]

it was just to the next station unfortunately. i know its very stupid and wont do it again but what do you think they do in this situation? who do you think they were? as it wasnt on the train but thet ticket they saw was for a thameslink, would it be GTR? in what cases would it be TFL? I am seeing that TFL is not leniant at all in the threads and want to see what determines which one it would be. i only travel on thameslink but this didnt happen on the train

If the ticket you showed was for two adjacent stations, it is often cheaper to use Oyster, and the fact you didn't could be flagged up as suspicious. Also, if you were on a train to Gatwick and you had luggage with airline stickers attached, again it could be suspicious. You may not be out of the woods.