Advice needed please – Thameslink Prosecution

[Momaiki]

Hello everyone, I’m here on behalf of my friend/housemate who received a Govia Thameslink prosecution letter after not having a valid ticket for her journey. We would love some advice please. Is the response, ok? Thanks in advance!



Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in reference to case [XXX] to sincerely apologize for not having a valid ticket for the full duration of my journey on [XXX]. I deeply regret any inconvenience or loss caused to your company as a result of my actions.

On [XXX], I travelled with a ticket that did not cover the entire journey. I believed I had purchased the correct ticket before boarding the train and was prepared to show it to the officer. Unfortunately, due to a processing issue with my phone and my subsequent panic, I mistakenly purchased an incorrect ticket. While this was an error on my part, I fully acknowledge that it does not excuse my failure to ensure I had the appropriate ticket before traveling. I am truly sorry for this lapse in judgment and take full responsibility for my actions.

Since learning more about the financial impact of fare evasion, I have come to understand how harmful my behaviour was, not only to the rail industry but also to other passengers who pay the correct fares. This experience has been a profound lesson for me, and I have since committed to ensuring that I always purchase the correct ticket before boarding the train. I deeply regret my actions and assure you that this will not happen again.

I fully accept that my behaviour was inappropriate and would like to do whatever is necessary to make amends. I am prepared to pay the outstanding fare along with any associated administrative costs incurred. Furthermore, I kindly ask for the opportunity to resolve this matter without proceeding to court.

Thank you for considering my request. I am truly sorry for my actions and hope to demonstrate that I have learned from this incident. I look forward to your response and sincerely appreciate your time and understanding.

Yours Sincerely,

XXX

 

[AlterEgo]

It's impossible to say how plausible or appropriate the response is without knowing details of the incident. Of note is the reply's content saying that the passenger made a simple mistake, yet goes on to be fulsomely apologetic for "harmful/inappropriate behaviour"? Was it a mistake, or was it deliberate short faring? It cannot be both.

Where were you travelling from and to?
What ticket did you buy, and which stations did it cover?
Where were you caught?
Which retailer did you buy your ticket from?

 

[Momaiki]

It's impossible to say how plausible or appropriate the response is without knowing details of the incident. Of note is the reply's content saying that the passenger made a simple mistake, yet goes on to be fulsomely apologetic for "harmful/inappropriate behaviour"? Was it a mistake, or was it deliberate short faring? It cannot be both.

Where were you travelling from and to?
What ticket did you buy, and which stations did it cover?
Where were you caught?
Which retailer did you buy your ticket from?

Hi thank you for your response.

My friend was in a rush to get the train and she was I guess sleep deprived state and her phone not working properly especially with the internet she thought she had bought her ticket however as the ticket officer was approaching and she was getting ready to show her ticket and she noticed she didn’t pay so she rushing to pay the ticket as she was already on board. The station that she was supposed to take was from Foxton to Finsbury Park. The officer took her details and gave her an orange paper (I’m assuming the penalty). My friend said the officer asked if she had money on the day and to wait for the letter

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi thank you for your response.

My friend was in a rush to get the train and she was I guess sleep deprived state and her phone not working properly especially with the internet she thought she had bought her ticket however as the ticket officer was approaching and she was getting ready to show her ticket and she noticed she didn’t pay so she rushing to pay the ticket as she was already on board. The station that she was supposed to take was from Foxton to Finsbury Park. The officer took her details and gave her an orange paper (I’m assuming the penalty). My friend said the officer asked if she had money on the day and to wait for the letter

What ticket did she actually buy? In what way did it not cover her entire journey? Which stations did the ticket actually cover?

Foxton isn't barriered; the train company hasn't asked about other instances, but they may audit her purchase history as they will naturally suspect this was an attempt at deliberate short faring. Will an audit of her online account show short fares having been purchased before? You need to be very careful with how you reply to this, because telling a lie has consequences and the company may refuse to settle.

 

[Momaiki]

What ticket did she actually buy? In what way did it not cover her entire journey? Which stations did the ticket actually cover?

Foxton isn't barriered; the train company hasn't asked about other instances, but they may audit her purchase history as they will naturally suspect this was an attempt at deliberate short faring. Will an audit of her online account show short fares having been purchased before? You need to be very careful with how you reply to this, because telling a lie has consequences and the company may refuse to settle.

So after a long hard chat with her and some grilling and looking at her online purchase she admitted that she had did it due to shortage of money. She had also mentioned she did it in another 2 occasions. We had a long chat of her behaviour and she is really sorry and is reflecting on her actions. She did say ever since that day she made sure to buy full ticket journey.

I am really disappointed in her right now. But she is really sorry for actions. Could you please tell me on how to improve the letter?

Thankyou so much for your time.

 

[MotCO]

It's good that we are getting some truthful answers now. It may be difficult to admit wrongdoing, but this forum is not judgemental, and we need true and complete information to offer the best advice.

Can you provide details of the actual ticket held? Was it purchased before boarding? There are some strange ticketing arrangements, and we have had some instances of ticket irregularities where a valid ticket was in fact held - but don't be too optimistic, it is quite rare, but we do need to know what ticket was bought.

 

[Momaiki]

It's good that we are getting some truthful answers now. It may be difficult to admit wrongdoing, but this forum is not judgemental, and we need true and complete information to offer the best advice.

Can you provide details of the actual ticket held? Was it purchased before boarding? There are some strange ticketing arrangements, and we have had some instances of ticket irregularities where a valid ticket was in fact held - but don't be too optimistic, it is quite rare, but we do need to know what ticket was bought.

Hi, what do you mean by provide details of actual ticket held? Do you mean the other 2 occasions or the one in the letter? Sorry my English is not my first language. I have attached a photo of the orange ticket that was given to her on the day of the incident.

So one of the occasion she bought a single fare from Alexandra Palace to Finsbury Park instead of Foxton to Finsbury and she was already on the train. She bought it using the app.

I hope this make sense, apologies in advance as I am not good in English.

 

[MotCO]

Hi, what do you mean by provide details of actual ticket held? Do you mean the other 2 occasions or the one in the letter? Sorry my English is not my first language. I have attached a photo of the orange ticket that was given to her on the day of the incident.

So one of the occasion she bought a single fare from Alexandra Palace to Finsbury Park instead of Foxton to Finsbury and she was already on the train. She bought it using the app.

I hope this make sense, apologies in advance as I am not good in English.

When she was stopped by the inspectors, when did she buy the ticket (before she got on the train, on the train etc?), which stations were on the ticket (e.g. Foxton to Finsbury Park), and where did she get on and off the train?

 

[Momaiki]

Ah I see thank you for the clarification. So she said the inspector was going round and they asked for her ticket around 07:10am at Hitchin, she bought the ticket at around 07:05 from Letchworth on the train via app to Finsbury as a single fare instead of return as she was in a state of panic.

She then bought a return single fare from Finsbury to Foxton at 17:50.

 

[MotCO]

Apologies, I do not know the line. Was the journey from Foxton to Finsbury Park, via Letchworth and Hitchin? She did not have a ticket when she boarded, bought it on the train near Letchworth, about 5 minutes before the inspector asked for her ticket, and for only part of the journey (Letchworth to Finsbury Park)? The inspector presumably knew that she had bought the ticket while on the train.

I'm not sure why there is a problem when she panicked by buying a single rather than a return ticket. The problem would only arise when she tried to go home from Finsbury Park to Foxton.

Was the problem that she boarded a train without a valid ticket, which is usually not allowed? If there was no working ticket machine, nor an open ticket office at Foxton, there may be a defence, but buying a ticket on the train for only part of the journey destroys that defence.

 

[Hadders]

Foxton to Finsbury Park is an odd journey to make. Foxton is a small unbarriered station with not a lot nearby.

I'm familiar with this route as it's my local line....

Are you sure your journey wasn't Cambridge to Kings Cross with you holding tickets from Cambridge to Foxton and Finsbury Park to Kings Cross tickets to get through the barriers at either end of your journey, but leaving a agoing gap in the middle?

The ticket inspector appears around Letchworth so you tried to regularise the situation by buying a Foxton to Finsbury Park ticket.

 

[Haywain]

The ticket inspector appears around Letchworth so you tried to regularise the situation by buying a Foxton to Finsbury Park ticket.

It appears to have been a Letchworth to Finsbury Park ticket.

 

[Momaiki]

Apologies, I do not know the line. Was the journey from Foxton to Finsbury Park, via Letchworth and Hitchin? She did not have a ticket when she boarded, bought it on the train near Letchworth, about 5 minutes before the inspector asked for her ticket, and for only part of the journey (Letchworth to Finsbury Park)? The inspector presumably knew that she had bought the ticket while on the train.

I'm not sure why there is a problem when she panicked by buying a single rather than a return ticket. The problem would only arise when she tried to go home from Finsbury Park to Foxton.

Was the problem that she boarded a train without a valid ticket, which is usually not allowed? If there was no working ticket machine, nor an open ticket office at Foxton, there may be a defence, but buying a ticket on the train for only part of the journey destroys that defence.

Yes the journey she usually takes is from Foxton to Finsbury. And she has admitted to me after long conversation with her that she boarded the train on Foxton and tried to save money by buying ticket at Letchworth when train is near Hitchin as she saw officer coming.

I hope my English makes sense. I’m sorry if it doesn’t make sense I’m trying to get her to tell me what happened exactly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Nov 2024 ==

Foxton to Finsbury Park is an odd journey to make. Foxton is a small unbarriered station with not a lot nearby.

I'm familiar with this route as it's my local line....

Are you sure your journey wasn't Cambridge to Kings Cross with you holding tickets from Cambridge to Foxton and Finsbury Park to Kings Cross tickets to get through the barriers at either end of your journey, but leaving a agoing gap in the middle?

The ticket inspector appears around Letchworth so you tried to regularise the situation by buying a Foxton to Finsbury Park ticket.

Yes it’s from Foxton to Finsbury. But the train starts at Cambridge and ends at London Kings Cross.

I’m sorry what do you mean by going gap in the middle. Apologies my English isn’t strong. I attached a photo of her journey with her permission to hopefully explain the situation better.

 

[30907]

Thanks. So on Friday 13/9 she travelled from Foxton to Finsbury Park (and back?) and had a valid ticket for her journey (she should have bought it before boarding)

On Weds 18/9 she paid from Letchworth which is short-faring (whenever it was bought); on another date she paid from Alexandra Palace, ditto.

As she had the correct ticket for the return trip, it is these two that were cheating the railway. Although she was only stopped once, they will almost certainly investigate other purchases and find the second (and more?).

I would encourage her to rewrite paragraph #2 more honestly (it wasn't a mistake!), otherwise it is fine if a bit long.

 

[Momaiki]

Thanks. So on Friday 13/9 she travelled from Foxton to Finsbury Park (and back?) and had a valid ticket for her journey (she should have bought it before boarding)

On Weds 18/9 she paid from Letchworth which is short-faring (whenever it was bought); on another date she paid from Alexandra Palace, ditto.

As she had the correct ticket for the return trip, it is these two that were cheating the railway. Although she was only stopped once, they will almost certainly investigate other purchases and find the second (and more?).

I would encourage her to rewrite paragraph #2 more honestly (it wasn't a mistake!), otherwise it is fine if a bit long.

Thank you, I will let her know to rewrite her letter today.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

s she had the correct ticket for the return trip, it is these two that were cheating the railway. Although she was only stopped once, they will almost certainly investi

Hi everyone, thank you all for helping my friend, it has been a stressful week trying to get her to explain the truth. Could you please read her updated letter?

especially @Hadders please

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing about case XXX to sincerely apologize for not having a valid ticket for the full duration of my journey on 18th September 2024. I deeply regret any inconvenience or loss caused to your company because of my actions.

On XXX, I was travelling from Foxton to Finsbury Park and did not pay the correct fare via Trainline app. I travelled with a ticket that did not cover the entire journey. I have realised that this was a poor error of judgement on my part, I fully acknowledge that it does not excuse my failure to ensure I had the appropriate ticket before traveling. I am truly sorry for this lapse in judgment and take full responsibility for my actions.

Since learning more about the financial impact of fare evasion, I have come to understand how harmful my behaviour was, not only to the rail industry but also to other passengers who pay the correct fares. This experience has been a profound lesson for me, and I have since committed to ensuring that I always purchase the correct ticket before boarding the train. I deeply regret my actions and assure you that this will not happen again.

I fully accept that my behaviour was inappropriate and would like to do whatever is necessary to make amends. I am prepared to pay the outstanding fare along with any associated administrative costs incurred. Furthermore, I kindly ask for the opportunity to resolve this matter without proceeding to court.

Thank you for considering my request. I am truly sorry for my actions and hope to demonstrate that I have learned from this incident. I look forward to your response and sincerely appreciate your time and understanding.

 

[Hadders]

I fully accept that my behaviour was inappropriate and would like to do whatever is necessary to make amends. I am prepared to pay the outstanding fare along with any associated administrative costs incurred. Furthermore, I kindly ask for the opportunity to resolve this matter without proceeding to court.

I would change this paragraph. You've no right to an out of court settlement so you should say something like 'I wondered if it might be possible to resolve this issue without court action. I am prepared to pay...'

 

[Momaiki]

I would change this paragraph. You've no right to an out of court settlement so you should say something like 'I wondered if it might be possible to resolve this issue without court action. I am prepared to pay...'

Ok thank you, I will let her know