My granddaughter purchased a return ticket from King's Norton to Redditch yesterday. On the return trip she stayed on an extra 2 stops to Selly Oak and on the platform was given a PCN for £100 plus £6 fare underpayment with the PCN reason 'Travelling Beyond Validity'. The £100 is reduced to £50 if paid within 21 days. I fully understand my granddaughter was in the wrong here and just wanted to check that the matter has been dealt with correctly at Selly Oak.
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Advice needed on PCN
- Thread starter Pemberton
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This does seem a valid reason for a Penalty Fare, but could you upload a copy of the notice she received? Sometimes there are technical defences to do with the notice, as well as the signage at the embarkation station.
Just a thought, but the new ticket cost is for the full journey, not the bit for which the ticket was not valid. Yet the National Conditions of Travel state:-
13.4 If you travel beyond the destination shown on the Ticket, you will be treated as having joined the train without a valid Ticket for the additional part of your journey. Condition 9 sets out what may happen if you travel without a valid Ticket. (my highlighting.)
Surely that would imply that the new ticket cost should be the fare between King's Norton and Selly Oak?
13.4 If you travel beyond the destination shown on the Ticket, you will be treated as having joined the train without a valid Ticket for the additional part of your journey. Condition 9 sets out what may happen if you travel without a valid Ticket. (my highlighting.)
Surely that would imply that the new ticket cost should be the fare between King's Norton and Selly Oak?
Thank you Brissle Girl. I was struggling to understand the £6 fare and now, with your help, see that it's the cost a single fare from Redditch to Selly Oak which doesn't seem right as my granddaughter's return ticket already covered the Redditch to King's Norton part of the journey. Might there be grounds for any challenge, even if it's just on the £6 fare, when the unpaid portion of the journey, King's Norton to Redditch is, I think, £3 for a single fare?
Regrettably no. From the Regulations: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/366/regulation/9
(2) In paragraph (1), “the full single fare applicable” is the full single fare for the journey in question from the boarding station to—
(a)the next station at which the train is due to make a scheduled call; or
(b)the station at which the person leaves the train if, at the time the penalty fare is charged—
(i)the person is leaving the train
(my emphasis)
A Penalty Fare is an appropriate course of action in a situation like this. Your granddaughter is not being accused of fare evasion or fined, a penalty fare is simply a higher than normal fare that is imposed in certain situations.
I would advise paying it asap to obtain this discount, notwithstanding and technical reasons for appeal.
I would advise paying it asap to obtain this discount, notwithstanding and technical reasons for appeal.
WesternLancer
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I can guess!
For future ref I think it would be the case that if your granddaughter had bought an extra ticket - eg a single - for Kings Norton to Selly Oak BEFORE the train she was on stopped at Kings Norton (eg even if doing it on board on her phone) things would have been OK ticket wise and no Penalty Fare would have been issued.
Another thought for future travel. If she knew she wanted to return to a station a bit further back from the one she started from on a day trip, it's almost always worth buying a day return from that further station. That's normally easy to do online. It certainly would have worked if she'd bought a day return valid from Selly Oak to Redditch.
The only thing to then watch out for is if she's using a younger person's Railcard of any kind where there is a minimum fare of £12 if starting before 10am on weekdays.
The only thing to then watch out for is if she's using a younger person's Railcard of any kind where there is a minimum fare of £12 if starting before 10am on weekdays.
All good advice, thank you. It was such a shame though there is no excuse for not having a valid ticket. As background, this was my granddaughter's 1st day at work and it's taken a long time and a lot of effort to get to this point. She was training, yesterday and today, for a new store which opens tomorrow. Towards the end of the shift, staff were told that even though today, Thursday, is still a training day, they would be sent home if they didn't have the full uniform so my granddaughter stayed on to Selly Oak in an effort to pick up the required pair of black trousers from a friend. A lesson learned, I hope.
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