Advice needed on fixed penalty notice & potential prosecution

[mancgirl]

Hi

I'm hoping to receive some advice on an incident that happened to me on Thursday 19th Jan, and the consequences I have followed.

I bought a train ticket travelling from Manchester Oxford Road to Guide Bridge, which involved a change at Manchester Picadilly. The service was ran by Northern Rail. When I got to Picadilly I was asked to show my ticket which I did so, then I was asked to show my railcard. I logged into the railcard app and my card had actually expired in September, something I didn't realise and which I appreciate is fully my responsibility. I was then passed over to a Revenue Enforcement officer (I think this was how he introduced to me).

The officer explained I was going to be fined and I had travelled with intent to avoid fare. I explained that I realised my mistake and I bought a new, valid ticket with the officer stood with me, and he explained that the price from Oxford Road compared to Picadilly was the same; now I had bought this new ticket I hadn't actually evaded any fare. The officer said he still was going to submit the incident report about me, and he showed me his report and even said himself he had written it in such a way that meant he hoped I wouldn't get fined. When he let me go I asked what the fine would be should it be pursued and he told me it would be £70.

The whole situation was quite distressing, I was made to feel quite ashamed with a group of 6+ staff stood watching the officer talk to me and in the middle of a very busy station, I missed my next train etc., and I definitely learnt from my mistake. The worst part of this is that had I walked straight to my next platform instead of actually choosing to walk through train station staff, I would never have even had my ticket checked.

On 25th Jan I received my first letter from Northern Rail advising that they have opened an investigation, and stating 'we would like to give you the opportunity of responding with your explanation concerning it'. I responded via email, explaining as I have done above, I explained I had no intention to dodge a fare, I corrected my mistake and bought a new ticket thus avoiding any non-payment and l was fully co-operative throughout.

The next letter I have received on 3rd Feb is a Fixed Penalty Notice, advising that I am to pay a fixed penalty of £100 plus the £4.60 fare that I dodged, and if this isn't paid within 14 days legal action will be taken and I will be taken to court. I am at a loss for what to do as there doesn't seem any option for me to appeal, yet I can't understand that this is the just response. I am being asked to pay a fare again which I paid for twice on the day, and I am being issued with a penalty notice which is more than I was told. I feel like I have a fair case to win this based on the fact that I bought the new ticket in the presence of the employee on the day, but I am not sure whether it's worth pursuing. Please help!

 

[Haywain]

I'm afraid you had already travelled without a valid ticket and that is an offence. Northern can take you to court and will almost certainly win if they do, and that will cost you a lot more than £104.60. The simplest solution to this issue is to pay the money requested and appreciate that you will have learned an expensive lesson.

 

[SuspectUsual]

The worst part of this is that had I walked straight to my next platform instead of actually choosing to walk through train station staff, I would never have even had my ticket checked

Yes, but sooner or later you’d have your ticket checked and the out of date railcard would be discovered.

 

[Watershed]

Northern can and will bring a private prosecution against you if you don't pay. This would likely be under Byelaw 18 of the Railway Byelaws 2005, which makes it an offence to board a train without a valid ticket (provided there were ticketing facilities at your starting station). Your ticket wasn't valid when you boarded the train at Oxford Road, as you didn't hold a valid Railcard, and thus the offence was complete before the train had even moved an inch. Having bought a new ticket at Piccadilly doesn't negate the fact that you committed an offence at Oxford Road.

Obviously Northern are being rather harsh here, but the law is unfortunately on their side. The most pragmatic option is to pay the inflated settlement they are demanding, and then - once you have confirmation that the payment has been successfully made - write in to their customer services in the hope that they might consider refunding you some or all of it as a goodwill gesture.

The chances of them agreeing to do so are very remote, but it's about the only option you have unless you want to go to Court, where you would almost certainly be convicted and ordered to pay a fine (usually between 25-75% of your weekly income) plus the Victim Surcharge (40% of your fine), Northern's prosecution costs (which would likely be assessed at more than the £100 they are now demanding), and the outstanding fare (in this case, that would appear to be nothing, as you bought a new ticket at Piccadilly).

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

This is an unfortunate situation but sadly you travelled without a valid ticket, because you didn’t have a valid railcard. That is a criminal offence, however harsh it feels.

Northern are offering you the opportunity to keep the matter away from court if you pay them a sum of money. You could decide to let the matter go to court but if it did you would be found guilty.

A court appearance is the last thing you want so I suggest you pay what they are asking and chalk it up to experience.

Once the matter has been settled it might be worth raising a complaint with Northern’s customer services to see if they will consider a gesture of goodwill.

 

[furlong]

Write back and point out that their officer allowed (or even encouraged?) you to settle the matter of the outstanding fare on the spot and enclose a copy of that ticket, stressing the point that he told you no further fare was then outstanding?

One big caveat though - if a search of any ticket purchasing/credit card usage history might discover other occasions when you did the same, then you might not want to start a conversation that leads them to investigate you further, and prefer just to pay whatever they ask so they close the matter.

 

[bikesntrains77]

Although you travelled on 19th Jan, could the £100 actually be a penalty fare (at the post 23rd Jan rate, which is £100 but reduced to £50 if paid within 21 days)? The pre-23rd Jan penalty fare was £20.

Regardless, if I was in your situation, to save any hassle, time and stress, I'd pay £100, £50 or £20, or whatever and then forget about it. The law isn't on your side.

 

[30907]

Although you travelled on 19th Jan, could the £100 actually be a penalty fare (at the post 23rd Jan rate, which is £100 but reduced to £50 if paid within 21 days)? The pre-23rd Jan penalty fare was £20.

It appears not - Northern's policy specifically refers to a FPN of £100 (up from the old £70/80 fee, sometimes called a "penalty fake" on this forum).

Northern and other operators seem not to use the Penalty Fare route for occasions when railcard discount is improperly claimed.

 

[Doubleplus]

I bought a train ticket travelling from Manchester Oxford Road to Guide Bridge, which involved a change at Manchester Picadilly.

I’m sorry to hear of your situation and can only sympathise at the obvious unfairness of it all.

Not that it would make a difference, but purely out of interest, how did you buy your ticket? At a ticket office? From a ticket machine? On a website or app?

 

[185]

I'd hazard a guess that the fare quoted is a settlement fee not a penalty fare. At Northern, an expired railcard seems regularly to be dealt with as a conventional (RORA?) prosecution unless the passenger has opted to pay the settlement to prevent it escalating.

My advice, pay the £104.60, to avoid a potential criminal prosecution & subsequent record.

 

[Hadders]

Although you travelled on 19th Jan, could the £100 actually be a penalty fare (at the post 23rd Jan rate, which is £100 but reduced to £50 if paid within 21 days)? The pre-23rd Jan penalty fare was £20.

Regardless, if I was in your situation, to save any hassle, time and stress, I'd pay £100, £50 or £20, or whatever and then forget about it. The law isn't on your side.

It's not a 'new' Penalty Fare because these have to be issued by authorised members of staff at the time. They are not normally issued after the event.