Advice needed northern rail

[loopylou]

Hello there so today I received this letter I know I was gonna recieve something well let me explain what’s happened
So on 30/05/24 I got the 13.32 train from Wolverhampton to Blackpool north but I was then advised it was cancelled and only going to Preston so I went to Preston got off then went to find another Blackpool train someone mentioned I was able to get a partial refund due to the cancellation and couldn’t fully complete journey on that other train so I asked someone at Preston and advised me that I could do that yes but they never told me that I had to wait till I finished and completed journey so I followed the advice and did it and then realised my tickets then blanked out so couldn’t be scanned when I arrived at Blackpool with my 2 autistic children so I started to panic so the bloke took a statement from and asked what happened I explained was told I could partially refund ticket due to the cancellation he said they should told you after completed journey I said well that’s there error for giving me false information anyways took all the deteils and passed on said I will get a letter my anixety started now I have recieved this letter today I am panicking what’s gonna happen I have proof of the tickets and that it was only partially refunded also the railcard used and only happened from Preston to Blackpool as tickets was fine from Wolverhampton to Preston I wish I waited and never listed to them now I might not be in this situation now got this letter I’m single mum with little children can anyone help and advice what could happen now so worried I have emailed them and I have sent the letter special delivery to them help and advice would be great right now thank you

 

[tskir]

Just two things to say...

1. Forum experts will reply to this post shortly with detailed and knowledgeable information, but the gist is that you shouldn't worry that much. If you follow their advice (this is crucial!), you will likely be able to settle this out of court. This means you'll have to pay the train company some money, but you will not get prosecuted and will not get a criminal record (and you are definitely absolutely not going to jail for this).

2. When you write back to the train company, I heavily encourage you to ask someone to help you phrase your words better, because frankly as it is your post is one giant sentence with no punctuation and it's nearly impossible to read and comprehend.

 

[loopylou]

Hello thank you so much for that advice as I am worried I am happily to pay if that’s what I need to do hopefully I hear back something soon .

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello there so today I received this letter I know I was gonna recieve something well let me explain what’s happened
So on 30/05/24 I got the 13.32 train from Wolverhampton to Blackpool north but I was then advised it was cancelled and only going to Preston so I went to Preston got off then went to find another Blackpool train someone mentioned I was able to get a partial refund due to the cancellation and couldn’t fully complete journey on that other train so I asked someone at Preston and advised me that I could do that yes but they never told me that I had to wait till I finished and completed journey so I followed the advice and did it and then realised my tickets then blanked out so couldn’t be scanned when I arrived at Blackpool with my 2 autistic children so I started to panic so the bloke took a statement from and asked what happened I explained was told I could partially refund ticket due to the cancellation he said they should told you after completed journey I said well that’s there error for giving me false information anyways took all the deteils and passed on said I will get a letter my anixety started now I have recieved this letter today I am panicking what’s gonna happen I have proof of the tickets and that it was only partially refunded also the railcard used and only happened from Preston to Blackpool as tickets was fine from Wolverhampton to Preston I wish I waited and never listed to them now I might not be in this situation now got this letter I’m single mum with little children can anyone help and advice what could happen now so worried I have emailed them and I have sent the letter special delivery to them help and advice would be great right now thank you View attachment 159898

Whether they gave you false information depends on the exact wording of the question you asked them!

I suspect you were entitled to claim delay- repay for the impact of the cancellation on your travel, not a refund.

 

[loopylou]

I asked them the question am I eligible for any kind of refund due to the last bit of the cancellation of my train and there reply was yes you can get a refund that’s all they said they never mentioned delay repay so now I’m worried what’s gonna happen I don’t mind having to pay anything and that be the end of it if that’s the case

 

[30907]

I asked them the question am I eligible for any kind of refund due to the last bit of the cancellation of my train and there reply was yes you can get a refund that’s all they said they never mentioned delay repay so now I’m worried what’s gonna happen I don’t mind having to pay anything and that be the end of it if that’s the case

You could have a part refund for the Preston-Blackpool bit but not if you then tried to use the ticket to get to Blackpool on another Northern train.

PS I presume you didn't refund the whole ticket.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

This appears to be a rather unfortunate incident about the difference between a refund and compensation for a delay.

Your journey was from Wolverhampton to Blackpool North.
The train terminated at Preston, where you took another train to Blackpool North.
Presumably this resulted in a delay to your arrival in Blackpool, compared to the time you expected to arrive if the Avanti train had run through to Preston.
If your delay was greater than 15 minutes then you were entitled to claim Delay Repay Compensation from Avanti, as they caused the delay.
The amount of compensation would depend on the length of the delay and the ticket type.

Unfortunately, you claimed a refund while you were at Preston waiting for your train to Blackpool. This meant you didn't have a valid ticket for your journey.

I would write a short, concise reply to Northern explaining what happened on the day and that you inadvertently applied for a refund instead of delay repay. Make sure you give them details of the exact Avanti train you travelled on so that they can see it was terminated at Preston instead of Blackpool North. Offer to pay the difference between the refund you received and the delay repay you were entitled to claim along with Northern's administrative costs in dealing with the issue.

If you post a copy of your draft reply in this thread forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I asked them the question am I eligible for any kind of refund due to the last bit of the cancellation of my train and there reply was yes you can get a refund that’s all they said they never mentioned delay repay so now I’m worried what’s gonna happen I don’t mind having to pay anything and that be the end of it if that’s the case

@loopylou. Welcome to the forum. Just who was it gave you the advice to (inappropriately, it would seem) claim a refund? This wasn't good advice. Even if the direct Avanti service from Wolverhampton to Blackpool North was terminated short at Preston, likely there would have been a Northern train following which would have got you to Blackpool North and not particularly all that delayed, maybe 14 or 15 minutes on Thursday 30th May 2024.

By refunding the ticket, you've found yourself still travelling on the railway without holding a ticket. Probable that you'll be able to resolve this by paying Northern a not insubstantial sum of money, likely this could be a three figure sum towards their investigation and admin fees, plus the fare due, which is £50.30 if charged from Wolverhampton to Blackpool North, or £9.90 if from Preston to Blackpool North.

 

[loopylou]

You could have a part refund for the Preston-Blackpool bit but not if you then tried to use the ticket to get to Blackpool on another Northern train.

PS I presume you didn't refund the whole ticket.

They obviously explained it wrong to me at Preston I’m happy to pay whatever I need to to sort the matter if that’s the case

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2024 ==

@loopylou. Welcome to the forum. Just who was it gave you the advice to (inappropriately, it would seem) claim a refund? This wasn't good advice. Even if the direct Avanti service from Wolverhampton to Blackpool North was terminated short at Preston, likely there would have been a Northern train following which would have got you to Blackpool North and not particularly all that delayed, maybe 14 or 15 minutes on Thursday 30th May 2024.

By refunding the ticket, you've found yourself still travelling on the railway without holding a ticket. Probable that you'll be able to resolve this by paying Northern a not insubstantial sum of money, likely this could be a three figure sum towards their investigation and admin fees, plus the fare due, which is £50.30 if charged from Wolverhampton to Blackpool North, or £9.90 if from Preston to Blackpool North.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2024 ==

@loopylou. Welcome to the forum. Just who was it gave you the advice to (inappropriately, it would seem) claim a refund? This wasn't good advice. Even if the direct Avanti service from Wolverhampton to Blackpool North was terminated short at Preston, likely there would have been a Northern train following which would have got you to Blackpool North and not particularly all that delayed, maybe 14 or 15 minutes on Thursday 30th May 2024.

By refunding the ticket, you've found yourself still travelling on the railway without holding a ticket. Probable that you'll be able to resolve this by paying Northern a not insubstantial sum of money, likely this could be a three figure sum towards their investigation and admin fees, plus the fare due, which is £50.30 if charged from Wolverhampton to Blackpool North, or £9.90 if from Preston to Blackpool North.

It was member of staff at Preston they have obviously gave false information and not explained properly at all my ticket was valid till Preston thats where the partial ticket refund was done I just hope it don’t court or anything I am happy to pay whatever need to get the mess sorted out and learn from the mistake

 

[WesternLancer]

They obviously explained it wrong to me at Preston I’m happy to pay whatever I need to to sort the matter if that’s the case

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2024 ==



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2024 ==


It was member of staff at Preston they have obviously gave false information and not explained properly at all my ticket was valid till Preston thats where the partial ticket refund was done I just hope it don’t court or anything I am happy to pay whatever need to get the mess sorted out and learn from the mistake

So the best thing you can do now is start drafting up what you want to say in reply as per post #7 from @Hadders above and write it here so people can help you get the wording right and then get that sent to Northern.

It's vital you reply to Northern and do not miss their deadline or this will automatically escalate to prosecution which is what you need to avoid.

 

[loopylou]

Hello there thanks for getting back to me I already sent it off yesterday I did explain to them what had happened at Preston and that I was given the wrong information and I apologised and said if I wasn’t gave the information this would of not happened and I have offered to pay the refund of the fair back Iv sent proof of my tickets railcard also the email of the partial refund and time it was done it’s just waiting to hear now I sent it special recorded signed for

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello there thanks for getting back to me I already sent it off yesterday I did explain to them what had happened at Preston and that I was given the wrong information and I apologised and said if I wasn’t gave the information this would of not happened and I have offered to pay the refund of the fair back Iv sent proof of my tickets railcard also the email of the partial refund and time it was done it’s just waiting to hear now I sent it special recorded signed for

Great - well done and good luck

When you hear back from them head back here for any more advice that you need in terms of what they say back to you or next steps etc.

 

[loopylou]

Thank you Iv tried my best it’s been delivered and signed for today had a notification from Royal Mail just waiting game now

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you Iv tried my best it’s been delivered and signed for today had a notification from Royal Mail just waiting game now

IIRC there are probably 3 things they could do in response

a) reject you explanation and move ahead with prosecuting you (I think this is unlikely so long as you have replied and they actually read it)
b) offer to settle the matter out of court (usually some admin fee and the cost of a new ticket)
c) issue a thing that Northern do that they call a 'Fixed Penalty Notice' - this is actually in reality a standard form of out of court settlement offer that Northern have decided to call a Fixed Penalty Notice and usually seems to be £100 plus the cost of a new ticket

I suppose they could also accept your explanation and

d) do nothing more and just warn you not to make the same mistake again, but I fear that option is unlikely.

 

[Haywain]

IIRC there are probably 3 things they could do in response

a) reject you explanation and move ahead with prosecuting you (I think this is unlikely so long as you have replied and they actually read it)
b) offer to settle the matter out of court (usually some admin fee and the cost of a new ticket)
c) issue a thing that Northern do that they call a 'Fixed Penalty Notice' - this is actually in reality a standard form of out of court settlement offer that Northern have decided to call a Fixed Penalty Notice and usually seems to be £100 plus the cost of a new ticket

I suppose they could also accept your explanation and

d) do nothing more and just warn you not to make the same mistake again, but I fear that option is unlikely.

Or e) close the issue by requesting the appropriate payment.

 

[loopylou]

IIRC there are probably 3 things they could do in response

a) reject you explanation and move ahead with prosecuting you (I think this is unlikely so long as you have replied and they actually read it)
b) offer to settle the matter out of court (usually some admin fee and the cost of a new ticket)
c) issue a thing that Northern do that they call a 'Fixed Penalty Notice' - this is actually in reality a standard form of out of court settlement offer that Northern have decided to call a Fixed Penalty Notice and usually seems to be £100 plus the cost of a new ticket

I suppose they could also accept your explanation and

d) do nothing more and just warn you not to make the same mistake again, but I fear that option is unlikely.

Thank you I hope it don’t go court or anything like that tbh as got young kids it does have the letters in reference NTLTIR I don’t mind just paying what they ask me too and settling it I have sent the form back it’s been signed and recieved I have also emailed my explanation with proof of tickets railcards and email from trainline with time the refund was done so can see was at Preston Iv done everything I can so it’s just waiting to see what they will do and accept now

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Thank you I hope it don’t go court or anything like that tbh as got young kids

Just to pick up on this - we can reassure you that even if you are taken to court, you will not go to prison for not paying the right fare. Unless there's something much more serious than what you've told us about, either the charged offence does not allow imprisonment, or the sentencing guidelines (called guidelines, but actually rules) that the court has to follow only allows a fine as the punishment.

 

[loopylou]

All that has happened is I had a partial refund on my ticket cause I was told wrong information so when arrived at my destination from Preston to Blackpool had no valid ticket cause of the refund process but I had a valid ticket from Wolverhampton to Preston before it was issued if I didn’t listen to the lady at station would not be in situation I just don’t want to go prison I am happy to pay the fee and ticket or whatever

@loopylou. Welcome to the forum. Just who was it gave you the advice to (inappropriately, it would seem) claim a refund? This wasn't good advice. Even if the direct Avanti service from Wolverhampton to Blackpool North was terminated short at Preston, likely there would have been a Northern train following which would have got you to Blackpool North and not particularly all that delayed, maybe 14 or 15 minutes on Thursday 30th May 2024.

By refunding the ticket, you've found yourself still travelling on the railway without holding a ticket. Probable that you'll be able to resolve this by paying Northern a not insubstantial sum of money, likely this could be a three figure sum towards their investigation and admin fees, plus the fare due, which is £50.30 if charged from Wolverhampton to Blackpool North, or £9.90 if from Preston to Blackpool North.

One of the staff at Preston advised me the train was ment to be a direct to Blackpool but it had been cancelled to terminate at Preston instead unfortunately I was advised I could partially refund but never said had to complete journey so stupid me followed the advice so when I got to Blackpool I had an issue so yes the ticket from Preston to Blackpool is not valid cause of false information I hope it don’t mean jail for me as was a silly mistake I followed I am happy to pay the ticket and whatever fee I have to I have apologised and and explained the whole situation so it’s just waiting to hear now worried me cause have kids aswell

 

[WesternLancer]

All that has happened is I had a partial refund on my ticket cause I was told wrong information so when arrived at my destination from Preston to Blackpool had no valid ticket cause of the refund process but I had a valid ticket from Wolverhampton to Preston before it was issued if I didn’t listen to the lady at station would not be in situation I just don’t want to go prison I am happy to pay the fee and ticket or whatever

One of the staff at Preston advised me the train was ment to be a direct to Blackpool but it had been cancelled to terminate at Preston instead unfortunately I was advised I could partially refund but never said had to complete journey so stupid me followed the advice so when I got to Blackpool I had an issue so yes the ticket from Preston to Blackpool is not valid cause of false information I hope it don’t mean jail for me as was a silly mistake I followed I am happy to pay the ticket and whatever fee I have to I have apologised and and explained the whole situation so it’s just waiting to hear now worried me cause have kids aswell

There is no way you are going to jail for this. Rest assured. Not unless you aggravated it by assaulting staff or some such anyway.

 

[loopylou]

Nope I never assaulted the staff or anything like that spoke to them nicely when took my statement that what worries me sorry

 

[WesternLancer]

Nope I never assaulted the staff or anything like that spoke to them nicely when took my statement that what worries me sorry

So I think you can stop worrying about any risk of prison. I don’t even think much risk of prosecution.

 

[loopylou]

That puts mind at rest abit think leads to prosecution when ignore letters and you travel without paying a lot in my case was a slight error due to being told wrong information

 

[WesternLancer]

Apols if you have answered this but how much did you refund?

What I’m getting at was did you refund just a ticket from Preston to Blackpool or the whole ticket from where you started out?

 

[loopylou]

They only partially refunded me as the ticket had been scanned at Wolverhampton they ain’t done the whole ticket but like i said it was an error being told wrong info I’m happy to return the ticket price and any fee I have to

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jun 2024 ==

Hello there so today I received this letter I know I was gonna recieve something well let me explain what’s happened
So on 30/05/24 I got the 13.32 train from Wolverhampton to Blackpool north but I was then advised it was cancelled and only going to Preston so I went to Preston got off then went to find another Blackpool train someone mentioned I was able to get a partial refund due to the cancellation and couldn’t fully complete journey on that other train so I asked someone at Preston and advised me that I could do that yes but they never told me that I had to wait till I finished and completed journey so I followed the advice and did it and then realised my tickets then blanked out so couldn’t be scanned when I arrived at Blackpool with my 2 autistic children so I started to panic so the bloke took a statement from and asked what happened I explained was told I could partially refund ticket due to the cancellation he said they should told you after completed journey I said well that’s there error for giving me false information anyways took all the deteils and passed on said I will get a letter my anixety started now I have recieved this letter today I am panicking what’s gonna happen I have proof of the tickets and that it was only partially refunded also the railcard used and only happened from Preston to Blackpool as tickets was fine from Wolverhampton to Preston I wish I waited and never listed to them now I might not be in this situation now got this letter I’m single mum with little children can anyone help and advice what could happen now so worried I have emailed them and I have sent the letter special delivery to them help and advice would be great right now thank you View attachment 159903View attachment 159903

Hello there so today I received this letter I know I was gonna recieve something well let me explain what’s happened
So on 30/05/24 I got the 13.32 train from Wolverhampton to Blackpool north but I was then advised it was cancelled and only going to Preston so I went to Preston got off then went to find another Blackpool train someone mentioned I was able to get a partial refund due to the cancellation and couldn’t fully complete journey on that other train so I asked someone at Preston and advised me that I could do that yes but they never told me that I had to wait till I finished and completed journey so I followed the advice and did it and then realised my tickets then blanked out so couldn’t be scanned when I arrived at Blackpool with my 2 autistic children so I started to panic so the bloke took a statement from and asked what happened I explained was told I could partially refund ticket due to the cancellation he said they should told you after completed journey I said well that’s there error for giving me false information anyways took all the deteils and passed on said I will get a letter my anixety started now I have recieved this letter today I am panicking what’s gonna happen I have proof of the tickets and that it was only partially refunded also the railcard used and only happened from Preston to Blackpool as tickets was fine from Wolverhampton to Preston I wish I waited and never listed to them now I might not be in this situation now got this letter I’m single mum with little children can anyone help and advice what could happen now so worried I have emailed them and I have sent the letter special delivery to them help and advice would be great right now thank you View attachment 159903View attachment 159903

Hello there so today I received this letter I know I was gonna recieve something well let me explain what’s happened
So on 30/05/24 I got the 13.32 train from Wolverhampton to Blackpool north but I was then advised it was cancelled and only going to Preston so I went to Preston got off then went to find another Blackpool train someone mentioned I was able to get a partial refund due to the cancellation and couldn’t fully complete journey on that other train so I asked someone at Preston and advised me that I could do that yes but they never told me that I had to wait till I finished and completed journey so I followed the advice and did it and then realised my tickets then blanked out so couldn’t be scanned when I arrived at Blackpool with my 2 autistic children so I started to panic so the bloke took a statement from and asked what happened I explained was told I could partially refund ticket due to the cancellation he said they should told you after completed journey I said well that’s there error for giving me false information anyways took all the deteils and passed on said I will get a letter my anixety started now I have recieved this letter today I am panicking what’s gonna happen I have proof of the tickets and that it was only partially refunded also the railcard used and only happened from Preston to Blackpool as tickets was fine from Wolverhampton to Preston I wish I waited and never listed to them now I might not be in this situation now got this letter I’m single mum with little children can anyone help and advice what could happen now so worried I have emailed them and I have sent the letter special delivery to them help and advice would be great right now thank you View attachment 159903View attachment 159903

Does anyone know how long I will be waiting from northern they recieved it on Tuesday 11th June

 

[WesternLancer]

Does anyone know how long I will be waiting from northern they recieved it on Tuesday 11th June

You might have to wait a few weeks - at least 4 I suspect.

 

[loopylou]

Thank you just want it over with I will pay what they ask just hope ain’t prosecuted first time ever this has happened people said I won’t be put inside hope that’s true too

 

[skyhigh]

You will not go to prison. You need to stop worrying about that outcome. It will not happen.

 

[loopylou]

You will not go to prison. You need to stop worrying about that outcome. It will not happen.

Thank you I just panic a lot as suffer with anixety and depression

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you I just panic a lot as suffer with anixety and depression

rest assured you are doing the right things to avoid prosecution for what happened, and if for some unlikely chance their reply is not sympathetic head back here for more help as people can then advise you what to do - their first reply is not the end of the chances to sort it out without being prosecuted.

Head back here for more help as you need it and try not to worry in the mean time if you can.

 

[loopylou]

Thank you so much for your help will do