Advice for Thameslink potential prosecution please!

[helpneeded]

Hi all,

I may be asking a little early but my anxiety is eating me alive.

5 days ago I stupidly got on the train with a family members staff pass instead of having a ticket. I know now how stupid it was and honestly didn’t know the seriousness it could amount to.

I was questioned on it by a ticket inspector and panicked and gave their name and address instead of my own. I was honestly so scared and didn’t know what to do so kept it up for a while before confessing and apologising and giving all my real details.

They confiscated the pass and said the owner would get a letter to see if they knew I was trying to use it.

He made a report and sent to the prosecutions team and gave me the receipt for that.
It’s honestly the first time I’ve done anything like this. I hardly even take the train (I think it’s been about a few years) I only really use tube, bus etc which I have proof I always pay for.

I am genuinely so ashamed and suffer with anxiety (which I take medicine for) which has now skyrocketed and I am seriously struggling to eat or sleep.

The inspector said I should expect a letter within a week and I should respond within 21 days - from looking online this looks to be correct for a penalty fare, no unsure if he gave me the correct info?
He said if it doesn’t come within a week I can email the prosecutions team but don’t email beforehand.

I know I still have a few days on that week, but I was wondering if anyone knows how long they tend to take to send out letters like this? And if I don’t receive one in the next few days should I email?

I’m also considering hiring a solicitor, do I need to wait for the letter or can I contact them for help before it arrives / before potentially emailing the prosecutions team?
I know it will be an additional cost (unsure how much they tend to charge) but I’m honestly struggling to breathe and my heart rate is at a constant racing and I just want this all over as soon as possible and outside of court.
I accept my fault and am so apologetic and just need this done as my mental health is really really struggling and I don’t know how much longer I can handle feeling this way.

Appreciate any help,

Thank you

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi all,

I may be asking a little early but my anxiety is eating me alive.

5 days ago I stupidly got on the train with a family members staff pass instead of having a ticket. I know now how stupid it was and honestly didn’t know the seriousness it could amount to.

I was questioned on it by a ticket inspector and panicked and gave their name and address instead of my own. I was honestly so scared and didn’t know what to do so kept it up for a while before confessing and apologising and giving all my real details.

They confiscated the pass and said the owner would get a letter to see if they knew I was trying to use it.

He made a report and sent to the prosecutions team and gave me the receipt for that.
It’s honestly the first time I’ve done anything like this. I hardly even take the train (I think it’s been about a few years) I only really use tube, bus etc which I have proof I always pay for.

I am genuinely so ashamed and suffer with anxiety (which I take medicine for) which has now skyrocketed and I am seriously struggling to eat or sleep.

The inspector said I should expect a letter within a week and I should respond within 21 days - from looking online this looks to be correct for a penalty fare, no unsure if he gave me the correct info?
He said if it doesn’t come within a week I can email the prosecutions team but don’t email beforehand.

I know I still have a few days on that week, but I was wondering if anyone knows how long they tend to take to send out letters like this? And if I don’t receive one in the next few days should I email?

I’m also considering hiring a solicitor, do I need to wait for the letter or can I contact them for help before it arrives / before potentially emailing the prosecutions team?
I know it will be an additional cost (unsure how much they tend to charge) but I’m honestly struggling to breathe and my heart rate is at a constant racing and I just want this all over as soon as possible and outside of court.
I accept my fault and am so apologetic and just need this done as my mental health is really really struggling and I don’t know how much longer I can handle feeling this way.

Appreciate any help,

Thank you

Welcome to the forum!

The inspector's advice to wait a while for the letter to come through is good. What can you do in the meantime that may help you feel more in control? I'd suggest
- let your family member know that you were caught using their pass. It's not impossible that their employer will want to take it up with them, so it's only fair that they should know there could be an issue.
- make a note of exactly what happened. That way, you know that if you need to look at it again you don't need to rely on your memory
- start putting money aside to pay the train fare that you didn't pay, and anything else that you will be charged on top (there will certainly be costs that the railway have incurred and if it goes to court there could be a fine as well).

Lastly, try not to worry too much: even if this goes to court, you will not go to prison: the punishment will be a fine. And while it may be embarrassing to have to tell an employer about a prosecution (if there is a prosecution) we find that most employers recognise that people make mistakes from time to time: as long as you aren't hiding the mistake you are unlikley to lose your job.

 

[helpneeded]

Welcome to the forum!

The inspector's advice to wait a while for the letter to come through is good. What can you do in the meantime that may help you feel more in control? I'd suggest
- let your family member know that you were caught using their pass. It's not impossible that their employer will want to take it up with them, so it's only fair that they should know there could be an issue.
- make a note of exactly what happened. That way, you know that if you need to look at it again you don't need to rely on your memory
- start putting money aside to pay the train fare that you didn't pay, and anything else that you will be charged on top (there will certainly be costs that the railway have incurred and if it goes to court there could be a fine as well).

Lastly, try not to worry too much: even if this goes to court, you will not go to prison: the punishment will be a fine. And while it may be embarrassing to have to tell an employer about a prosecution (if there is a prosecution) we find that most employers recognise that people make mistakes from time to time: as long as you aren't hiding the mistake you are unlikley to lose your job.

Thank you so much for your response.

Do you have any idea of how long these letters typically take to come?
And would it be advisable to speak to a solicitor before receiving the letter to hopefully speed up the process?

My family member is now aware and is waiting to be contacted too.

How likely is thameslink to settle out of court considering there would be the fare evasion issue plus the fact that I lied about my details at first?

Thank you so much for any help

 

[Haywain]

I’m also considering hiring a solicitor, do I need to wait for the letter or can I contact them for help before it arrives / before potentially emailing the prosecutions team?

There seems little point in engaging a solicitor at this point as you have no idea how the train company will approach this. Just wait to see what the letter says. Your family member may find that they lose their travel facilities for a year or two as a result of this, as misuse of travel facilities is seen in a very, very dim light. It would help to know which company it was that stopped you and if that is not the same company that your family member works for, which company that is as well.

 

[helpneeded]

There seems little point in engaging a solicitor at this point as you have no idea how the train company will approach this. Just wait to see what the letter says. Your family member may find that they lose their travel facilities for a year or two as a result of this, as misuse of travel facilities is seen in a very, very dim light. It would help to know which company it was that stopped you and if that is not the same company that your family member works for, which company that is as well.

Thank you for your response!

Is there a chance the letter will immediately offer to settle out of court or will it definitely ask for more info?

And do they ever immediately try to take something to court with the initial letter or will they always ask for my response first?

This was with Govia Thameslink that stopped me.

Thank you

 

[John R]

Which company was this? (If you don't know, what train journey were you on?)

One problem you will have is that, although you have said it was the first time, you'd have to be fairly unlucky to be caught first time, so the working assumption by the investigators will be that you have done this before. Thus there may well be some analysis of the staff pass in question to determine whether any other journeys appear as though they were not taken by the owner of the pass.

To pick up on @Fawkes Cat 's point, your family member could be in trouble too, particularly if they knowingly gave you the pass. If they have union representation then it may be wise for them to have an initial discussion with the union, before they get any contact from the employer.

Finally, and pre-empting the letter I think you are highly likely to have to write at some stage, I would not labour on your anxiety as a mitigation. We see it cited quite frequently, and so I'm sure investigators do too. They may well take the view that fare dodging is an unwise practice for someone suffering from clinical anxiety, as both the act itself, and the consequences when caught, are themselves somewhat detrimental to anyone's level of anxiety.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

This a serious situaton because it involves a member of staff who is likely to be drawn into the investigation, and they could face disciplinary action themselves. I agree that it would be wise for the member of staff to speak to their union representative at the earliest opportunity.

You are also likely to be written to by GTR for not holding a valid ticket for your journey. When the letter arrives post a copy of it in this thread, with personal details redacted, and forum members will offer advice on how to proceed.

 

[bossman]

Any letters received or update on this?

 

[Hadders]

Any letters received or update on this?

Please start a new thread if you are in need of advice. We have a rule of only discussing one case in each thread to avoid confusion because experience has taught us that no two cases are every the same, however similar the night appear at first.

 

[helpneeded]

Hi again all,
I have just received my letter and am hoping for advice on how to proceed. Whether I should look to get a solicitor involved or draft a letter myself?

I am very eager to solve it all as fast as possible and out of court, any help would be appreciated.

Letter attached

Thank you!

 

[30907]

The wording on p.2 suggests they intend to use Byelaw 21 rather than the more normal approach of Byelaw 18 (not having a valid ticket). I don't recall a previous example of this, but I don't think it makes too much difference to you.

1. A Byelaw offence is a bottom-of-the-scale one, so is unlikely to be career-threatening.

2. GTR are known for being willing to settle out of court.

3. There are many posts by member @Hadders suggesting a basic outline for your reply - you will need to tailor it slightly, and steer clear of ChatGPT and the like
People here will happily (and sometimes robustly!) comment on your draft.

 

[helpneeded]

Thanks for your response!
I'm struggling to find the basic outline from @Hadders that you have recommended but have read some other threads and written a first draft below that I would appreciate any and all feedback on before sending.

Thank you:

Dear Sir/Madam,



Reference Number:


I am writing in response to the Intention to Prosecute letter I received from you dated XXXX. I firstly would like to thank you for allowing me the opportunity to respond.

I was approached whilst travelling on the (DATE) and produced a ticket that did not belong to me. I panicked when questioned and initially told the inspector it was mine not realising the severity of my actions in the moment. I am so remorseful for my behaviour and since the incident have been reflecting on myself heavily as this does not align with the morals of who I truly am.

I am extremely sorry for my foolish and selfish decision that day to get on a train without a valid ticket. I have never done this before and will never do anything like it again. I assure you my name will never come to your attention again as I truly regret my actions. I apologise for the extra workload my case has added to your team, and am now aware of the massive strain and financial cost that fare evasion places on Govia Thameslink and the railway industry.

I would be so grateful for the chance to settle this matter outside of court by any means necessary, including paying for my full fare along with any administrative costs or fees that you would have incurred whilst dealing with my case.


I wholeheartedly apologise for any inconvenience caused and hope to hear back from you soon,


Sincerely,



NAME




Do you think I should go into any more detail on the incident? I have explained more in my first post on this thread. Appreciate any advise, would like to get this sent back as soon as possible! thanks all

 

[WesternLancer]

I'm struggling to find the basic outline from @Hadders that you have recommended but have read some other threads and written a first draft below that I would appreciate any and all feedback on before sending.

see post #3 here, but your draft does indeed generally follow the recommended approach

Notice of intention to prosecute received

Hi, Please see attached for letter with details redacted. I was stopped at Gatwick Airport and was caught without the railcard that I stated on the ticket (purchased through trainline). I was questioned after being read my rights. In a panic, I denied that I did this on purpose, but this is...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Haywain]

Thanks for your response!
I'm struggling to find the basic outline from @Hadders that you have recommended but have read some other threads and written a first draft below that I would appreciate any and all feedback on before sending.

Thank you:

Dear Sir/Madam,



Reference Number:


I am writing in response to the Intention to Prosecute letter I received from you dated XXXX. I firstly would like to thank you for allowing me the opportunity to respond.

I was approached whilst travelling on the (DATE) and produced a ticket that did not belong to me. I panicked when questioned and initially told the inspector it was mine not realising the severity of my actions in the moment. I am so remorseful for my behaviour and since the incident have been reflecting on myself heavily as this does not align with the morals of who I truly am.

I am extremely sorry for my foolish and selfish decision that day to get on a train without a valid ticket. I have never done this before and will never do anything like it again. I assure you my name will never come to your attention again as I truly regret my actions. I apologise for the extra workload my case has added to your team, and am now aware of the massive strain and financial cost that fare evasion places on Govia Thameslink and the railway industry.

I would be so grateful for the chance to settle this matter outside of court by any means necessary, including paying for my full fare along with any administrative costs or fees that you would have incurred whilst dealing with my case.


I wholeheartedly apologise for any inconvenience caused and hope to hear back from you soon,


Sincerely,



NAME




Do you think I should go into any more detail on the incident? I have explained more in my first post on this thread. Appreciate any advise, would like to get this sent back as soon as possible! thanks all

To be honest, I think that's pretty good and ticks the necessary boxes.

 

[helpneeded]

see post #3 here, but your draft does indeed generally follow the recommended approach

Notice of intention to prosecute received

Hi, Please see attached for letter with details redacted. I was stopped at Gatwick Airport and was caught without the railcard that I stated on the ticket (purchased through trainline). I was questioned after being read my rights. In a panic, I denied that I did this on purpose, but this is...

www.railforums.co.uk

Great thank you, I believe I have covered what is suggested in that outline. Do you think anything should be amended in my response or add any more details etc?

 

[helpneeded]

To be honest, I think that's pretty good and ticks the necessary boxes.

Thank you so much! Is there anything else you recommend adding or changing? Is there anything specific advised to say that might help to get a swift out of court settlement from your experience?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2024 ==

The wording on p.2 suggests they intend to use Byelaw 21 rather than the more normal approach of Byelaw 18 (not having a valid ticket). I don't recall a previous example of this, but I don't think it makes too much difference to you.

1. A Byelaw offence is a bottom-of-the-scale one, so is unlikely to be career-threatening.

2. GTR are known for being willing to settle out of court.

3. There are many posts by member @Hadders suggesting a basic outline for your reply - you will need to tailor it slightly, and steer clear of ChatGPT and the like
People here will happily (and sometimes robustly!) comment on your draft.

Thanks so much for your response!
Do different Byelaws tend to affect the likelihood of them settling outside of court?
I have just added a draft of my letter to this thread below your message, I would appreciate any feedback you have, thanks again

 

[Haywain]

Is there anything else you recommend adding or changing?

One minor change, taking out a few unnecessary words:

I would be so grateful for the chance to settle this matter outside of court by any means necessary, including paying for my full fare along with any administrative costs or fees that you would have incurred whilst dealing with my case.

Other than that, I would say that it's good to go.

 

[helpneeded]

One minor change, taking out a few unnecessary words:

Other than that, I would say that it's good to go.

Thank you so much for your help! I will amend.

I intend to post 1st class signed for/tracked - any idea on how long they typically take to give a response after receiving my letter?

 

[tpt1212]

Any update on this?

 

[Elecman]

Any update on this?

As per Forum rules please start your own thread if you require assistance as no 2 cases are the same and members can tailor thier advise to your particular situation

 

[helpneeded]

Hi all,
Just wanted to update, I got the letter response to my letter with an out of court settlement for £85 including the missed fare!
Very happy it’s all over with and I can stop feeling anxious.
Thank you again for all advice and help!

 

[30907]

Hi all,
Just wanted to update, I got the letter response to my letter with an out of court settlement for £85 including the missed fare!
Very happy it’s all over with and I can stop feeling anxious.
Thank you again for all advice and help!

That seems par for GTR, thanks for the update.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi all,
Just wanted to update, I got the letter response to my letter with an out of court settlement for £85 including the missed fare!
Very happy it’s all over with and I can stop feeling anxious.
Thank you again for all advice and help!

Thanks for letting us know - that's a good result, and it will help us to give up to date advice if anyone comes to us in a similar position.

 

[WesternLancer]

I note that because of the way the OP @helpneeded has asked for help at various stages and updated on things, it helps show the sorts of timescales that the railway company has worked to between stopping the passenger, reporting them, sending out the letter, reply sent back, offer to settle processed etc

many people come to the forum and ask how long they can expect to hear back by and of course that will later with workloads etc but this case does give an idea in that regard.

 

[randyrippley]

Hi all,
Just wanted to update, I got the letter response to my letter with an out of court settlement for £85 including the missed fare!
Very happy it’s all over with and I can stop feeling anxious.
Thank you again for all advice and help!

What happened to the family member whose pass you used?