Advice for cleaning front ends

[NoTraction]

Hi everyone, new to the forum!

Today im after some experienced advice/opinions before i go to the union for the legal stuff.

We are being asked to clean front ends on the 16x's and soon will be 387's, now the issue for some of us (we havent started doing them yet) is that the OLE is being kept live while we are hand bashing in the yard on the front end. My personal opinion is that its not safe with the water around, i know a few drops wont make any difference but the potential for electrocution with 25kv above your head isn't something im keen on saying "it'll be fine".

Answer this then -

1. Would you do it?
2. if you would, how would you do it or what could you suggest to make it safe? (they have already said they will not isolate the roads as they still need them for moving sets around)

 

[Johncleesefan]

I do not like the sound of that either and would certainly be doing what you're doing. Refusal to work policy and all that

 

[dubscottie]

As long as you or the brush don't go above the orange cantrail stripe (that is why it is there) you are fine.

People have been doing it for years and I have never heard of anyone getting zapped.

 

[NoTraction]

I'm a cleaner so yes it is my job, which was fine before OLE.

Yes refusal to work under health and safety is the answer and has happened with one person so far.

Yeah, not going above the cantrail line is part of the job standard and OLE briefs, but its the water that is being flicked around by the brush bristles that worry me and many other cleaners, there are around 40 in question.


Do you know other depots or sidings that work with this?

I only know of a Southern depot that does fronts where OLE is on, however i understand they do it in their under frame wash with OLE isolated on a single road? Again, has been considered although only 2-3 maximum per night will get done. The risk assessments for our depot say working with OLE on is fine, even the team leaders have expressed concerns and they would also not do the job with OLE on.

 

[jopsuk]

surely the union has the contacts to speak to the depot cleaners at the AC TOCs? Presumably it is how it's done (within just London!) at HEX/Connect, LM, GN, AGA, TL, C2C etc?

 

[JN114]

I think your management, or the union, would be the best first port of call here. Certainly not a conversation to be having on a public forum where, with all due respect, anyone can answer - regardless of whether they are qualified to give advice on a safety critical matter or not -and thus influence your actions, be it consciously or sub-consciously.

The one good thing about the railway above anything else is its safety culture - you should never be afraid of raising such matters with management.

 

[NoTraction]

Jopsuk - well you would think so!

JN114 - yep, the union rep is the next guy to speak to, i do agree with you, however, this has been an ongoing issue for several weeks now with tensions all over the place, management are now saying the risk assessments and everything related are all up to date and the job is safe to do, but when asked on behalf of 40 odd cleaners and 4 team leaders if they would come and show us it is safe, they refused.


Now, i came here in a hope that some of you may have seen this task being done with live OLE, at stations or depot etc.

Just FYI, it is a really easy job so its not like we're trying to get out of doing work as some have suggested

 

[flash]

Windscreens have been cleaned under wires for years... that said there has always been a proper risk assessment and authorised method of work. As far as I aware its done on the West & East Coast and at St Pancras International.

 

[dubscottie]

I don't have figures to back this up, but I think, unless you are stupid and have zero situational awareness, you would have more chance of getting struck by lighting holding a wet brush than from the OHLE.

As long as staff are trained right it should not be an issue.

If it puts you at ease, I did a bit H&S training for a company. I used "shock" videos to show how simple mistakes cost life's.

Here is a video of an item being removed from a panto while the wires were live.

https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=cRQxawXbgBk

There are a few videos of "surfers" and others that have been within 1ft of high voltage AC OHLE and got away with it. And many that did not.

 

[driver9000]

I'm a cleaner so yes it is my job, which was fine before OLE.

Yes refusal to work under health and safety is the answer and has happened with one person so far.

Yeah, not going above the cantrail line is part of the job standard and OLE briefs, but its the water that is being flicked around by the brush bristles that worry me and many other cleaners, there are around 40 in question.


Do you know other depots or sidings that work with this?

I only know of a Southern depot that does fronts where OLE is on, however i understand they do it in their under frame wash with OLE isolated on a single road? Again, has been considered although only 2-3 maximum per night will get done. The risk assessments for our depot say working with OLE on is fine, even the team leaders have expressed concerns and they would also not do the job with OLE on.

Do you get electrocuted every time it rains standing below OLE? Trains are cleaned using brushes under the wires every day up and down the land and add long add you follow what you have been taught and don't go above the cantrail you will be safe. However if you have genuine concerns you really need to speak to your manager and H&S reps rather than an enthusiasts forum.

 

[broadgage]

Provided that the brush or other cleaning implement does not go above the orange stripe, the risk is effectively zero, and yes I would do it.

A solid jet of water directed from a large or high pressure hose is a risk, but drops or splashes of water flicked from a brush or mop are zero risk.
No more of a risk than standing under live overhead during heavy rain, or indeed standing under high voltage national grid lines in heavy rain.

 

[philthetube]

I would advise not usiing a metal brush though.

 

[dubscottie]

Provided that the brush or other cleaning implement does not go above the orange stripe, the risk is effectively zero, and yes I would do it.

A solid jet of water directed from a large or high pressure hose is a risk, but drops or splashes of water flicked from a brush or mop are zero risk.
No more of a risk than standing under live overhead during heavy rain, or indeed standing under high voltage national grid lines in heavy rain.

A solid jet of water is a bit of a urban myth! DC perhaps but only if you were standing on the return rail but not AC, overhead! Never!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://ukrailways1970tilltoday.me.uk/KingsCrossfive.html

Notice the equipment they are using. The bar at cantrail height..

 

[Clip]

As long as the brush is non conductive then you have nothing to worry about.

Not sure about your claim with Southern mind you as they dont have OLE at their depots.

 

[bengley]

Perfectly safe. I wash my windscreen with a brush under the wires regularly. It's provided for that purpose and a risk assessment has been done. No risk as long as you don't go above the cant rail