Advice about transferring AP ticket

[Nippy]

Hi there,

Can someone point me to the relevant info please?

Someone on a Facebook page I visit has purchased advance purchase tickets to Birmingham (and back) for a cost of £26.

They have offered them on for sale at £20. So, my understanding is this isn't allowed under the non transferable rules, but what is the real issue with just passing them on?

I want to be able to let them know why it isn't allowed (if it isn't) as I don't want any potential purchaser to get in trouble.

Ta.

 

[AlterEgo]

You cannot resell train tickets because it is against the law.

You can however give them to someone else.

That's the short answer without going around in circles.

 

[Nippy]

That's what I thought. I know there's going to be a reason, but most people won't see what the problem is!

 

[Merseysider]

You could report it, but ime Facebook doesn't give a crap anyway.

Is there any identifying information on the tickets?

 

[takke]

You can see plenty of tickets for resale on eBay for a variety of routes too. No idea whether non-transferability has ever been enforced by a TOC.

 

[Puffing Devil]

You can see plenty of tickets for resale on eBay for a variety of routes too. No idea whether non-transferability has ever been enforced by a TOC.

Indeed.

If used as ticketed, I would say that there is 0% chance of encountering any problems.

 

[yorkie]

.

They have offered them on for sale at £20. So, my understanding is this isn't allowed under the non transferable rules, but what is the real issue with just passing them on?

I want to be able to let them know why it isn't allowed (if it isn't) as I don't

If it was officially allowed, we would end up with ticket touts snapping up cheap tickets and selling them on for profit. That would not be a good thing.

In practice, if someone gives them away to a close friend or family member directly, no-one is going to mind and no harm is done.

 

[najaB]

You can see plenty of tickets for resale on eBay for a variety of routes too. No idea whether non-transferability has ever been enforced by a TOC.

My guess is that they have next to zero interest in one-off or even small-scale resale. What would get their attention is if someone bought up the lowest tier Advance tickets en-masse and then resold them at a markup over the face value.

 

[Puffing Devil]

If it was officially allowed, we would end up with ticket touts snapping up cheap tickets and selling them on for profit. That would not be a good thing.

In practice, if someone gives them away to a close friend or family member directly, no-one is going to mind and no harm is done.

My guess is that they have next to zero interest in one-off or even small-scale resale. What would get their attention is if someone bought up the lowest tier Advance tickets en-masse and then resold them at a markup over the face value.

This is the reason that Easyjet and others require photo ID on domestic flights and charge fees for name swaps on flights - it's primarily to prevent resale of the cheap tiers.

However, I don't see the TOCs revenue being hit, as they are still receiving the funds for the tickets. There's very little in it for them to start chasing the resellers on legitimate seats. Much like concert promoters could do a lot more to prevent ticket resale - they seem to be content with the secondary market.

One notable exception is Iron Maiden.

Iron Maiden report that since introducing ‘paperless ticketing’ in the UK, sales on the secondary market have plummeted by more than 95%

 

[najaB]

However, I don't see the TOCs revenue being hit, as they are still receiving the funds for the tickets. There's very little in it for them to start chasing the resellers on legitimate seats.

Except it does reputational damage: "There are *never* any cheap tickets..."

 

[Puffing Devil]

Except it does reputational damage: "There are *never* any cheap tickets..."

Assuming there is any reputation left to damage

 

[Bletchleyite]

You're not even meant to give tickets to others unless the original intended user, but the railway demonstrably doesn't care, if it did tickets would have names on them.

 

[broadgage]

As has already been posted, it is illegal to re sell rail tickets, but for single or return tickets it does not in practice matter, and no revenue is lost.

In the case of season tickets the position is much more serious since revenue IS lost if joe blogs borrows the season ticket of paul smith who is on holiday, rather than buying his own weekly or daily tickets.
That is why a photocard is needed for most season tickets to deter use by other people and consequent revenue loss, but no such photocard is needed for most single or return tickets since no revenue is lost if used by someone else.

Also, AFAIK, it is not illegal to buy a ticket for the use of someone else, and in law it would be challenging to prove the difference between person A buying a ticket from person B (illegal) and person B asking person A to go to the ticket office and purchase on behalf of person B (permitted)

Despite this I ADVISE VERY STRONGLY INDEED against buying a rail ticket from a stranger, on line or otherwise.
The ticket might be a forgery, and use of same is a serious offence, only slightly mitigated by claiming to have broken the law by purchasing illegally from a third party.

Alternatively the ticket might have been purchased by use of a stolen or cloned credit card, again a most serious offence, and only partly mitigated by claiming to have committed the less serious offence of purchasing the ticket from a third party.

 

[najaB]

Also, AFAIK, it is not illegal to buy a ticket for the use of someone else...

Indeed. The language used is 'A Ticket may only be used by the person who bought that Ticket or on whose behalf that Ticket was bought'.

 

[Nippy]

I wasn't go to report it on Facebook, I didn't know whether to let them know it's illegal, however, I expect the person selling doesn't realise. They bought Advance in March for travel this week, now realised they bought the wrong tickets, and have offered the £26 tickets for £20.

 

[najaB]

They bought Advance in March for travel this week, now realised they bought the wrong tickets, and have offered the £26 tickets for £20.

They're selling them for less than face value so, assuming that they are genuine, the TOC would have no reason to want to prosecute other than the principle.

 

[A Challenge]

Perhaps the rule that should be used is that resale is allowed (this could apply to all tickets, including concerts) as long as you don't sell them on for more than their original value, so this ticket, sold at £26.00 or less would be legal, £26.01 or more would be illegal?

 

[All Line Rover]

To change the rules would not be wise because legitimising second-hand reselling of rail tickets would likely result in a substantial increase in sales of fake tickets. Fake tickets are hardly sold at less than the face value of genuine tickets, are they?

As things stand, as najaB has mentioned, the use of a ticket purchased second-hand is no more legal than the use of a fake ticket.

 

[All Line Rover]

In fact, rather than pursue second-hand sellers of rail tickets, who may be difficult to trace, why don't TOCs monitor sales of second-hand 'Advance' tickets (which is easy on e.g. eBay), and sting the relevant trains with the hope of spotting the sold tickets and bringing usual ticketless travel proceedings against the persons using them?

 

[A Challenge]

Good idea there All Line Rover, can you get them to do that?

 

[yorkie]

Good idea there All Line Rover, can you get them to do that?

I don't think he will be able to.

 

[All Line Rover]

No, and most TOCs probably don't have the resources.

 

[paddington]

Perhaps one solution would be to have names required on advance tickets and no names required for walk-up tickets

This seems to be the case in continental Europe, although it is very variable whether ID is actually asked for