Advance without Reservation

[bb21]

Just seen this on my way down to London. Pax shows AP ticket without reservation. TM asks for the reservation coupon. Pax claims that was all he got from the machine when he collected ticket TOD this morning. TM informs pax that a new ticket would be required. Pax asks if his booking reference would suffice and told no. TM then told pax he can have 10 mins to look around for it. TM also asked pax if he haad anything on him that showed booking details. Ten mins later, TM came back. Pax offered his phone which had his booking details on. TM examined details and accepted it. Pax was then suitably advised. Whole thing went by professionally and courteous but firm.

Moral of the story? Always have your details sent to your phone, in case you lose the coupons. It might be acceptable. Good to see common sense prevail. Well done to the TM.

PS. Train was unusually busy this early on a Sat morning.

 

[LexyBoy]

Could be that they were telling the truth and peak hadn't had reservations printed- happened to me. Good to see a bit of common sense!

 

[nedchester]

Just seen this on my way down to London. Pax shows AP ticket without reservation. TM asks for the reservation coupon. Pax claims that was all he got from the machine when he collected ticket TOD this morning. TM informs pax that a new ticket would be required. Pax asks if his booking reference would suffice and told no. TM then told pax he can have 10 mins to look around for it. TM also asked pax if he haad anything on him that showed booking details. Ten mins later, TM came back. Pax offered his phone which had his booking details on. TM examined details and accepted it. Pax was then suitably advised. Whole thing went by professionally and courteous but firm.

Moral of the story? Always have your details sent to your phone, in case you lose the coupons. It might be acceptable. Good to see common sense prevail. Well done to the TM.

PS. Train was unusually busy this early on a Sat morning.

Exactly. The travel ticket will have a reference number on it and if that reference number can be found on an email on your phone (or paper email) then what's the problem?

Good to see the railways showing common sense although often the bounty hunters try to extract money from the unsuspecting passenger.

 

[RPI]

I apply the same logic, as long as I can see something that proves they are on the correct train I'll let them travel provided that they've given me no attitude or lip!

 

[me123]

PS. Train was unusually busy this early on a Sat morning.

There's a big protest in London, if you haven't noticed! There's even some extra charter trains running.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I apply the same logic, as long as I can see something that proves they are on the correct train I'll let them travel provided that they've given me no attitude or lip!

I often check reservations when people claim to have lost them or never had them printed. It is easy to do in most cases. Most tickets show a reservation reference number. This is in format two letters then 6 numbers. This can be checked on journey planner so I often phone control who check. Failing that the TOD CTR can be checked by phoning a different number, but they are not always open.

Sadly, in most cases, the reason the reservation has been "lost" is because they were on the wrong train. Just like yesterday in fact, when a student insisted that they never got the reservation coupons. Which is convenient, seeing as they were starting their journey at 0940 and not 0630 as it transpired their ticket was booked for.

 

[island]

I imagine people who are not familiar with advances may well go to collect their ticket from the TVM, take the first thing that comes out (which is the ticket) and go off without the reservation (or collection receipt). I did once shortly after arriving into the UK but heard the machine still printing stuff and went back for the rest of the coupons.

It may also arise if they're Irish, as Irish Rail manages to get advances on the one coupon.

 

[142094]

Next time you're at a station have a look at the ticket machines - you often find loads of reservation coupons either in the hopper itself or placed on top of the machine. On EC, the screen clearly states to check you have collected all your tickets and that tickets for travel are printed seperately from reservations.

 

[BestWestern]

I also tend to find quite often that people hand over the outward/return ticket for the other portion of their journey, stating that they only had one ticket printed by the machine. I've even had a credit card receipt handed to me! Sometimes hard to believe that a passenger could fail to realise that two tickets are required for a return journey, but then again not everybody is a frequent traveller :-/

 

[Ferret]

I often check reservations when people claim to have lost them or never had them printed. It is easy to do in most cases. Most tickets show a reservation reference number. This is in format two letters then 6 numbers. This can be checked on journey planner so I often phone control who check. Failing that the TOD CTR can be checked by phoning a different number, but they are not always open.

Sadly, in most cases, the reason the reservation has been "lost" is because they were on the wrong train. Just like yesterday in fact, when a student insisted that they never got the reservation coupons. Which is convenient, seeing as they were starting their journey at 0940 and not 0630 as it transpired their ticket was booked for.

Haha, I found somebody the other day with an advance but no reservation. Oddly enough, having found a reservation list for my train, there was only one pasenger booked on that train making that specific journey and I'd spoken to her already! New ticket required for our little chancer...:roll:

People do lose those reservation coupons - but if you can prove you're booked on this train by a booking confirmation then that's fine by me!

 

[RJ]

I often check reservations when people claim to have lost them or never had them printed. It is easy to do in most cases. Most tickets show a reservation reference number. This is in format two letters then 6 numbers. This can be checked on journey planner so I often phone control who check. Failing that the TOD CTR can be checked by phoning a different number, but they are not always open.

Sadly, in most cases, the reason the reservation has been "lost" is because they were on the wrong train. Just like yesterday in fact, when a student insisted that they never got the reservation coupons. Which is convenient, seeing as they were starting their journey at 0940 and not 0630 as it transpired their ticket was booked for.

Indeed. My computer tells me if a reservation has been ticketed, partially collected or awaiting collection, along with all address/booking details. Also get plenty of people claiming to have missed their train because of being delayed on other trains - I always have TRUST open so there's not much point in lying

 

[4SRKT]

What is the need for a separate reservation ticket if the guard can work out from the code on the ticket which train it's for? Would make things a lot simpler and would remove the excuse that the reservation ticket is 'lost' when the passenger is on the wrong train.

 

[bb21]

HEX prints out and rtn on one coupon iirc

 

[island]

Not all guards carry the machine around, and if they had to look up every single one then an EC guard would get through about three carriages between EDB and KGX!

 

[RJ]

What is the need for a separate reservation ticket if the guard can work out from the code on the ticket which train it's for? Would make things a lot simpler and would remove the excuse that the reservation ticket is 'lost' when the passenger is on the wrong train.

Because it makes infinitely more sense for a guard to have to make a phonecall to control for every single person who has an Advance ticket to check their reservation doesn't it?

 

[spoony]

Would it be too much trouble for whatever body prints the train tickets to have booked train and seat on one coupon? Would save all this messing about with multiple coupons for single journeys. Its not exactly a user friendly system at the moment.

 

[Ferret]

Would it be too much trouble for whatever body prints the train tickets to have booked train and seat on one coupon? Would save all this messing about with multiple coupons for single journeys. Its not exactly a user friendly system at the moment.

I totally agree! In this 'green age', why the hell do we waste so much paper?!

 

[4SRKT]

Because it makes infinitely more sense for a guard to have to make a phonecall to control for every single person who has an Advance ticket to check their reservation doesn't it?

Is this guy for real? Is there a more chippy poster than him on here?

 

[barrykas]

I often check reservations when people claim to have lost them or never had them printed. It is easy to do in most cases. Most tickets show a reservation reference number. This is in format two letters then 6 numbers. This can be checked on journey planner so I often phone control who check. Failing that the TOD CTR can be checked by phoning a different number, but they are not always open.

Going through my "collection", I have a couple of Ticket Office issued reservations which state "NOT VALID FOR TRAVEL" and "RETAIN FOR INSPECTION" at the top, and a reservation collected from a TVM that states "VALID ONLY WITH TICKET xxxxx" at the top, with the NRS Booking Reference and CTR at the bottom, and the associated ticket stating "VALID ONLY WITH RESERVATIONS" and "ISSUED AS 2 COUPONS" at the top, and also with the NRS Booking Reference and CTR at the bottom.

Incidentally, the collection receipt (printed last) tells you how many tickets (or coupons as it calls them) you should have, and their number range, with the receipt itself counting as one of the coupons.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[spoony]

I totally agree! In this 'green age', why the hell do we waste so much paper?!

Think of all the advantages of having travel info all on one ticket though.

The customer has a better purchasing/travelling experience, less time having to wait for coupons to print out thus queues at TVMs are shorter. The guards time is not wasted (and hence more productive) by having to deal with genuine passengers trying to find or account for both coupons. Also there is the reduced costs of tickets, printing, wear on the TVM, less litter and increased environmental reputation for the TOCs!

My own opinion is that the system is the way it currently is because its always been like that! That it hasnt been changed yet because no one has got around to doing it. That the train companies are very slow to change things as its simply easier to leave things as they are and do nothing.

Edit - Also if you have purchased two single advance tickets for one journey, ie Newcastle-York, then York - Manchester as separate journeys there should be an option in this day and age to integrate and combine the journey into one ticket.

 

[barrykas]

Think of all the advantages of having travel info all on one ticket though.

<snip>

My own opinion is that the system is the way it currently is because its always been like that! That it hasnt been changed yet because no one has got around to doing it. That the train companies are very slow to change things as its simply easier to leave things as they are and do nothing.

Au contraire. When Tribute was first introduced, tickets were always "Airline style", with all the details printed on them in full. (Which occasionally caused multiple coupons to be printed for a given portion if there were more than three legs involved).

Of course, such tickets won't go through ticket gates (except Eurostar ones), so you still had to have a Credit Card Size Ticket printer to print gate passes, so you still end up with four coupons for a return journey if it involves cross London transfer.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[causton]

Sometimes hard to believe that a passenger could fail to realise that two tickets are required for a return journey

Why ARE two tickets required then? I can get a return ticket on a bus without having to have two tickets...

(that isn't any sort of 'if I can do this on a bus it should work on a train' sort of thing, but I can't really explain my question more than that...)

 

[spoony]

Au contraire. When Tribute was first introduced, tickets were always "Airline style", with all the details printed on them in full. (Which occasionally caused multiple coupons to be printed for a given portion if there were more than three legs involved).

Of course, such tickets won't go through ticket gates (except Eurostar ones), so you still had to have a Credit Card Size Ticket printer to print gate passes, so you still end up with four coupons for a return journey if it involves cross London transfer.

Cheers,

Barry

At least there was less chance of losing those

 

[barrykas]

At least there was less chance of losing those

Indeedy...And they had enough room to print more detailed restrictions on them. (Maximum of 50 characters).

Though ISTR that most of them just said "TIME/DAY OF TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS MAY APPLY - PLEASE ENQUIRE", or words to that effect.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[SS4]

Edit - Also if you have purchased two single advance tickets for one journey, ie Newcastle-York, then York - Manchester as separate journeys there should be an option in this day and age to integrate and combine the journey into one ticket.

Only on request though due to break of journey considerations (in your example it would be in York). I doubt technology would be smart enough to consider that the 10:44 into York and the 10:46 out would be the same train!

OT: That last hour flashed by!

 

[island]

The reason I remember being given for a return being printed on two coupons was "in case there are different restrictions or dates applicable to each leg". Leaving out the plausibility of that statement, I suspect that the more practical matter is that changing this would require a lot of hacking around with gate software so it's unlikely to happen.

An Iarnród Éireann advance for a return journey (or indeed any return ticket) manages to print itself on just one coupon. I'd scan one in from my collection, but my scanner is kaput.

 

[4SRKT]

An Iarnród Éireann advance for a return journey (or indeed any return ticket) manages to print itself on just one coupon. I'd scan one in from my collection, but my scanner is kaput.

Not forgetting that IR issued tickets that looked suspiciously like APTIS ones when they first computerised ticketing. These were on a single coupon, unlike BR's APTIS out and back separate portions.

And before anyone tries to wheel out some kind of excuse about lack of space for all the detail required on tickets here, tickets in Ireland have to use up more space by printing a lot of stuff in two languages, yet still manage to get it all on one coupon.

Also, pre-APTIS, BR return tickets were just one piece. I remember that the two coupons for return journeys thing caused a lot of head scratching when it first started, something Bestwestern seems to have forgotten.

 

[Max]

I wonder if reservation details could potentially be printed on the rear of a ticket. I've noticed recently that till receipts at Sainsbury print double sided to save paper, so I assume the technology must exist.

 

[transmanche]

An Iarnród Éireann advance for a return journey (or indeed any return ticket) manages to print itself on just one coupon.

Like this? ISTR that when London Underground started issuing credit card sized tickets in the 80s, they switched to issuing returns as just one ticket.

 

[lyesbkz]

Sometimes hard to believe that a passenger could fail to realise that two tickets are required for a return journey, but then again not everybody is a frequent traveller :-/

When I first travelled by train (and purchased my tickets from a staffed window) I remember benig surprised that the return consisted of two parts, probably because I was used to travelling by bus where a return is one ticket that gets punched upon return.