Advance tickets on overcrowded trains

[talltim]

If the train you are booked on is too full to get on, I presume you would be allowed to catch the next one? And similarly if the train you were going to catch to catch the reserved train was too full the same would apply?

 

[Smethwickian]

If the train you are booked on is too full to get on, I presume you would be allowed to catch the next one?

If you have a reservation and reservations have been applied to the train (by paper label or visual display) surely you stand your ground, seek the on-train staff, and have people ejected from the seat you have reserved? If they won't shift, insist the conductor or train manager summons British Transport Police, as a by-law* is being broken.

Over the top? Then what's the point in having advance tickets or seat reservations in the first place?

If you have a reservation but reservation labels/displays have not been correctly used, meaning the passengers are not knowingly occupying your seat, then I am less sure about the situation regarding their removal. In that event, the train company has failed to provide you with the service and Passengers Charter provisions and/or Delay Repay refunds must apply.

*19. Classes of accommodation, reserved seats and sleeping berths
Except with permission from an authorised person, no person shall remain in any seat, berth or any part of a train where a notice indicates that it is reserved for a specified ticket holder or holders of tickets of a specific class, except the holder of a valid ticket entitling him to be in that particular place.
24. Enforcement
(2) Removal of persons
(i) Any person who is reasonably believed by an authorised person to be in breach of any of these Byelaws shall leave the railway immediately if asked to do so by an authorised person.
(ii) Any person who is reasonably believed by an authorised person to be in breach of any of these Byelaws and who fails to desist or leave when asked to do so by an authorised person may be removed from the railway by an authorised person using reasonable force. This right of removal is in addition to the imposition of any penalty for the breach of these Byelaws.

 

[Mike395]

Surely you stand your ground, seek the on-train staff, and have people ejected from the seat you have reserved? If they won't shift, insist the conductor or train manager summons British Transport Police, as a by-law* is being broken.

Over the top? Then what's the point in having advance tickets or seat reservations in the first place?



*19. Classes of accommodation, reserved seats and sleeping berths
Except with permission from an authorised person, no person shall remain in any seat, berth or any part of a train where a notice indicates that it is reserved for a specified ticket holder or holders of tickets of a specific class, except the holder of a valid ticket entitling him to be in that particular place.

I'd agree if that's the booked train, however if it's a connection it's not so cut & dry - presumably if you physically couldn't get on, you could find station staff prepared to endorse your ticket for travel on a later train, considering that you weren't able to make the connection through no fault of your own?

 

[LexyBoy]

This would never happen, as Advance tickets are only used by TOCs to fill up seats which would otherwise go empty.

</sarcasm>

Yes, you'd be allowed to catch the next one if you were advised not to board (I've seen this happen at Cheltenham - on one occasion three XC trains came and went with no-one being let on). If you just decide it looks a bit busy for your liking, then you could be buying a new ticket.

I don't think train staff are going to be delaying a service by beating their way through a crowd to evict someone so an AP ticket holder can get on.

 

[Smethwickian]

I'd agree if that's the booked train, however if it's a connection it's not so cut & dry -

Yes, apologies - I had assumed we were talking about a reserved leg. I was editing my post as you wrote.

(As for three XC trains in a row being too full, well, see lots of other threads on this forum debating the delights of Voyagers.....)

 

[causton]

And especially if the ticket has unreserved seats (e.g. Southern!)

 

[Greenback]

This is a very interesting question. I have Advance tickets in a few weeks. Part of the journey is by ATW from Cardiff back to Llanelli. Now that ATW do not issue reservations when tickets are booked online, there is a chance that the train may be too full to board.

Now, I don't mind standing, but we will have several bags with us (it is a two week holiday after all!) but if we are unable to get on it will mean a long wait for the next train, due to the timetable is, and exactly the same thing may happen an hour later!

The paltform staff do their best to direct passengers for Bridgend, Port Talbot, Neath and Swansea to the HST that actually leaves first, but a lot of people justs ee the words Swansea and get on the 175/ I've been on some nightmare services out of Cardiff, and I have this terrible feeling that we will be caught out!

 

[AlterEgo]

If you have a reservation and reservations have been applied to the train (by paper label or visual display) surely you stand your ground, seek the on-train staff, and have people ejected from the seat you have reserved? If they won't shift, insist the conductor or train manager summons British Transport Police, as a by-law* is being broken.

Over the top? Then what's the point in having advance tickets or seat reservations in the first place?

If you have a reservation but reservation labels/displays have not been correctly used, meaning the passengers are not knowingly occupying your seat, then I am less sure about the situation regarding their removal. In that event, the train company has failed to provide you with the service and Passengers Charter provisions and/or Delay Repay refunds must apply.

*19. Classes of accommodation, reserved seats and sleeping berths
Except with permission from an authorised person, no person shall remain in any seat, berth or any part of a train where a notice indicates that it is reserved for a specified ticket holder or holders of tickets of a specific class, except the holder of a valid ticket entitling him to be in that particular place.
24. Enforcement
(2) Removal of persons
(i) Any person who is reasonably believed by an authorised person to be in breach of any of these Byelaws shall leave the railway immediately if asked to do so by an authorised person.
(ii) Any person who is reasonably believed by an authorised person to be in breach of any of these Byelaws and who fails to desist or leave when asked to do so by an authorised person may be removed from the railway by an authorised person using reasonable force. This right of removal is in addition to the imposition of any penalty for the breach of these Byelaws.

What a brilliant idea. Delay an already busy train because someone's in a seat reserved by another person.

:roll:

 

[wintonian]

Maybe I should try and claim my 70p back from Southern as the 20:38 today was full and standing when I got on at Clapham Junction?

 

[trainophile]

I was just wondering what constitutes an "overcrowded" train, and who makes that call? I'd have said the Holyhead to Cardiff ATW that I was on the Friday before the Heineken Cup Rugby Final last month must have been pretty close, given that even standing room was a luxury (not helped by an abundance of boxes of beer!), but they were still allowing people on at all scheduled stops.

If a passenger decides themselves that the situation would be impossible (e.g. if elderly so need a seat) what would be the view of the guard on the next train if they decided to wait for it rather than squeeze into the crusher?

 

[wintonian]

I was just wondering what constitutes an "overcrowded" train, and who makes that call? I'd have said the Holyhead to Cardiff ATW that I was on the Friday before the Heineken Cup Rugby Final last month must have been pretty close, given that even standing room was a luxury (not helped by an abundance of boxes of beer!), but they were still allowing people on at all scheduled stops.

If a passenger decides themselves that the situation would be impossible (e.g. if elderly so need a seat) what would be the view of the guard on the next train if they decided to wait for it rather than squeeze into the crusher?

I'm not sure there is a definition beyond not being able to physically board.

 

[FGWman]

If you have a reservation and reservations have been applied to the train (by paper label or visual display) surely you stand your ground, seek the on-train staff, and have people ejected from the seat you have reserved? If they won't shift, insist the conductor or train manager summons British Transport Police, as a by-law* is being broken.

.[/I]

Try doing that after T4 on the Beach at Weston super Mare. Impossible

 

[Zoe]

Try doing that after T4 on the Beach at Weston super Mare. Impossible

I didn't think advance fares were usually avaiable after major events.

 

[FGWman]

I didn't think advance fares were usually avaiable after major events.

They were from Bristol and Bath last year. No chance of getting on. Perhaps there wont be any this year

 

[sunday]

I didn't think advance fares were usually avaiable after major events.

They probably shouldn't be, I have able to travel back from Reading festival on advances for the last 3 years. You just have to get there a few hours early because of the crowds and the massive queues. I always feel absolutely terrible for other passengers on trains after events like this, it's not a great scent.

 

[FGWman]

Also sometimes events can catch the TOC out. There was a Bath charity fun run last year on a Sunday. Unexpectedly large number of people came to watch and a couple of trains going back to Swindon were so full some were left behind.