Advance Tickets;connecting trains?

[me123]

Quick Question. I'm going to York and will be using Advance tickets for the journey. The SB train requires going to Queen Street and changing at Edinburgh onto a SB NXEC, although the NB NXEC runs to Glasgow.

The SB service leaves Queen Street at 08.30 and connects to the 09.30 to KGX. But there's only an 11 minute connection time. I'm concious of the ticket barrier queues and possible long walk to Platform 8/9 at Waverley.

Would it be possible to use the earlier 08.15 train to allow extra time to board at EDB or is that not allowed on the Advance tickets? I know you have to use the named train but since the FSR service has no reservations, could I get away with it?

Or, if I were to miss that train (the 0930), would I be able to hop on another considering that I have the 0830 named on the ticket?

Thanks in Advance. (sorry...)

PS, please don't suggest looking at a SB from Glasgow/Motherwell to YRK. I have and the fares are quite a bit more expensive.

 

[paul1609]

Me, Im a keen walker and come back down from West Highland Stations 2 to 3 times a year. My usual route is Queen St, Edinburgh, Kings Cross i reckon if your able bodied 11 mins at Edinburgh is ample. Assuming your ticket is NXEC plus connections you can use any connection you want!

 

[mrcheek]

early morning services are prone to delay. so try and get an earlier service if you can. There shouldnt be a problem.
every January, a group of us from work go to an exhibition in London. every year we are told by rail enquiries to catch the 8.40 from Weston-super-Mare, leaving only a few minutes to change at Bristol Temple Meads. (and the 8.40 is late at least half the time). so every year, we ignore the advice, catch the 8.30 XC from WSM, and arrive in Bristol TM with time to spare, and time to get some coffee. And even though we have advance tickets, nobody has ever questioned it.

 

[me123]

Actually, I was about to book the tickets but the prices have shot up by about £20 in the last hour! So it's off.

Thanks anyway. I would have actually been travelling with a middle-aged not so well bodied lady so I needed extra time for stairs. I was also accounting for delays, ticket barriers and time to get comfortable. Useful info to know anyway.

 

[TEW]

Just for information sections of Advance Purchase without Reservations are valid on that service or anyone on that day before that service.

 

[yorkie]

They can't enforce a compulsory reservation if there is no compulsory reservation

You are entitled to get the FSR train you are "suggested" to get, and if you miss the connection to get the next NXEC train. Obviously, they cannot penalise you for that.

However if you want to ensure you arrive at your destination on time but can leave earlier then it is sensible to do so, and they won't be aware you're doing it and can't stop you.

 

[djw1981]

FSR are happy with you getting a train upto 60 minutes earlier normally especially if you have barrier compatible tickets, because you can travel FSR (from GLC) NXEC (from GLC), XC (from GLC) or FSR (from GLQ) for the first part of that journey. Normally the ticket (not reservation) says "GLASGOW CEN/QST" or "GLASGOW BR"

 

[me123]

Thanks everyone. Just checking in case the tickets say "0830" on them. It's actually all back on but now moved to a date in September, and I'm travelling from MTH so the question no longer applies but it is good to know for future

 

[John @ home]

Just checking in case the tickets say "0830" on them.

Ah! I thought you already had tickets which stated the times of the connecting trains.

That's quite easy to avoid. If you buy the tickets online and pick them up at a FastTicket machine, tickets and reservations are on orange credit card sized cards and, in my experience, reservation coupons are printed only for those legs of the journey for which seats are reserved.

If, however, you choose delivery by post then it seems to depend on which company you book with. Most now seem to issue tickets on the orange credit card sized stuff, but a few remain with the large airline ticket sized cards. On these the full journey is listed but legs without reservations are marked "SUGGESTED SERVICE".

... Or at least they were until the introduction of the new, stricter advance ticket conditions last May. I wonder if they still show "SUGGESTED SERVICE"?

John

 

[djw1981]

The only time I have ever had an issue was when the journey was relying on you traveling after 0930 (teh time of CDR validity) but I cannot remember the ticket type or restrictions, sorry - brain fried due to 20C + temperatures in Glasgow.

 

[me123]

Yeah, nice and warm up here for once. And I was stuck in work and the AC broke and our manager wouln't give us ice-lollies

Moving swiftly on... I have another, only slightly related, question. Are seats 3 and 5 on an NXEC Mk IV opposite each other? (Coach E if it makes any difference). I know they're at the window and are at a table, but are they at the same table? Same for 43 and 45. Thanks.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Moving swiftly on... I have another, only slightly related, question. Are seats 3 and 5 on an NXEC Mk IV opposite each other? (Coach E if it makes any difference). I know they're at the window and are at a table, but are they at the same table? Same for 43 and 45. Thanks.

Its difficult to tell from reservation numbers these days as NXEC don't use the F and B indicators anymore (they are all listed as Airline).

Assuming NXEC haven't changed the numbers around and that the layout is the same as the HST stock, yes they are opposite each other.

Since the Retail Manual went online the NXEC section has disappeared so I can't double check.

 

[voyagerdude220]

On the subject of connecting trains, with AP singles...

A few weeks ago, my first train of the day (I held a valid Saver for- not AP) was caped, meaning that it was impossible to catch my XC Voyager ex York..

Because I allowed sufficient time at York between my arrival and departure, (and could prove it) I assumed that I had the right to use the next possible Voyager from York, without charge/excess...

My question is...

Is this actually the case- Do I have the right, or is it simply down to the TM's discretion?

If it is my right, are TM's up to date with this, or do you usually have to explain clearly to the TM/Conductor?

In the case of my example, I simply got the conductor of the next train to validate my ticket, by writing the headcode of the train on the back of the ticket, which I showed the XC TM, and he was very, very friendly, and had no problem at all with me.

It's just that even if it was my right, I get the feeling that i could still get the odd jobsworth charging the open single to my destination...

Edit: If I got stuck somewhere, and needed a taxi to get me home because I missed my booked last train of the day,(as long as it wasn't any more than say 30-60 minutes away) would the TOC be obliged to pay me the cost of a taxi?

 

[djw1981]

Yes to taxi / minibus, if you had missed the last train.

The only thing with cachinga alter train is that your reservation is no longer valid so you have to join the battle for Voyager seats.

And me123 - AC... you lucky thing.....try working in an environment without AC with 100 machines all blasting heat out through the fans; and not allowed to drink water except on your breaks - which are 4 hours apart.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

TOCs have an obligation to get you to the destination on your ticket if you are delayed by fault of the railway.

This covers delays, cancellations and diversions by ANY operator or service that you are booked to use, or were allowed to use, with your ticket.

 

[voyagerdude220]

The only thing with cachinga alter train is that your reservation is no longer valid so you have to join the battle for Voyager seats.

That wasn't a problem- My FC carriage only had 4 or 5 people in by the time it left York 8)

or were allowed to use, with your ticket.

I've just noticed my main point... I was talking about split tickets, but accidently forgot to mention the whole point to my original post... oops! :roll:

Is it any different with split tickets? It's just that you can't really get AP FC Singles with multiple TOCs on the same ticket, except NXEC FC singles, which easily manage it :???:

 

[me123]

AIUI, split tickets indicate multiple journeys and thus the condition does not apply

And djw, we got ice lollies today :razz: Although, we have to have AC because there's about 1000 PCs on constantly (plus phone turrets). Also, I thought in four hours you had to have 1x15 minute break? (or maybe that's just my companies policy). Sadly, 3h59 means no breaks of course...

 

[jv3531]

Some things to remember with advance purchases:

If you miss a train through any fault other than your own, a reservation becomes available on the next available service, If you are going to be delayed at this station by more than an hour, seek assistance from customer services. They may (although this is down to control authorising it) provide you with alternative transport if the situation requires it (ie. meetings etc.). Be friendly with them - if you go in shouting and balling, they are more than likely to say no regardless! And it's not their fault!

If there is a next train then the ticket will become open and should be accepted by the conductor as previously stated. If in doubt, again ask customer services to provide documentry evidence if you are worrid.

If however, you miss a train through your own fault then thats it! You will be charged any of: upgrade to full single fare depending on ticket type with paying the difference; FULL single fare or in the case of penalty fares areas the penalty fares rules apply in these circumstances if you fail to purchase the alteration before boarding your train!

Last but not least, as was stated earlier: TOCs do have an obligation to allow you to complete the journey stated on the ticket which may not be your final destination. Alternative transport will be provided to the station on your ticket only! They are not obligued to provide any onward transport.

 

[me123]

Cool, thanks jv3531. (And hello, BTW ) Makes it all a lot simpler. Presumably you need proof, of course, that the previous service is delayed? If so, how can you provide it? Or do they just need to accept the ticket?

 

[voyagerdude220]

But the question is, whether it matters about the fact I had split the tickets, or if the tickets are still treated the same regardless of this?

 

[me123]

AIUI, the tickets are separate journeys/contracts and as such I would imagine that technically speaking you could not claim that. Although I'm sure if that is the case, that many CSRs would allow an exception if you asked a nice person nicely.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Yes Me123, I asked politely, and positioned myself exactly where the TM was when the 220 pulled into York, saving us time, and allowing me to explain the situation to him before we left, so I got a seat, thanked him, and settled down in my very quiet (well in FC anyway) 220

 

[me123]

Always the best approach. I'm a CSR myself (not for any TOCs sadly) and I always want to help the nicer ones. When someone starts shouting and swearing at me, I tend to feel less enthusiastic about helping them shall we say...

 

[djw1981]

AIUI, split tickets indicate multiple journeys and thus the condition does not apply

And djw, we got ice lollies today :razz: Although, we have to have AC because there's about 1000 PCs on constantly (plus phone turrets). Also, I thought in four hours you had to have 1x15 minute break? (or maybe that's just my companies policy). Sadly, 3h59 means no breaks of course...

Legally you must have a 15 minute break (paid or unpaid) if working 6 hours, and you should not work for more than 4hours without a break. Note the the difference between must and should........In the context a break is detailed as being a chance to use the toilet and have a drink or snack.

There are exceptions, as many train drivers and guards will soon chip in to point out that transport staff are one because of their mobile workplace and schedule / timetable / digram issues.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Is it any different with split tickets? It's just that you can't really get AP FC Singles with multiple TOCs on the same ticket, except NXEC FC singles, which easily manage it :???:

Just like I said:

TOCs have an obligation to get you to the destination on your ticket if you are delayed by fault of the railway.

This covers delays, cancellations and diversions by ANY operator or service that you are booked to use, or were allowed to use, with your ticket.

Therefore, if you were delayed on your first ticket they would not have to honour the second one, but, like has been said, be nice and you never know your luck.

 

[me123]

Legally you must have a 15 minute break (paid or unpaid) if working 6 hours, and you should not work for more than 4hours without a break. Note the the difference between must and should........In the context a break is detailed as being a chance to use the toilet and have a drink or snack.

Oh right. My work seems to be quite nice from that perspective, though. I work 8 hours and get paid 7.5 with 2 more paid 15 minute breaks. That's working 1h45 minutes on average between breaks which is hard going :roll:

That said, I can still end up with 3 hours between breaks (although the rest of the sections can work out as being just over an hour as a result).

That said, again we're quite lucky because we can go to the toilet whenever we want and get water from a fountain and everything (the joys of working in an office ). As long as it's quiet, of course.

 

[yorkie]

Me123 and hairyhandedfool please see NCoC which now states that you CAN combine tickets for ONE JOURNEY providing you comply with the rules on combo tickets. I can't quote it now as I am on a PDA but it's in there!

 

[me123]

Oh, OK. I'll have a look.

Quick question regarding this then. I'm boarding on a SB train to York departing MTH. I'm travelling from CBC and will be purchasing that ticket on da train. The connection's 11 minutes; more than enough time all things considered, but it is the first train of the morning to MTH. If this train were to arrive late/be cancelled, would I be able to get onto the next SB NXEC train using my AP tickets?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Me123 and hairyhandedfool please see NCoC which now states that you CAN combine tickets for ONE JOURNEY providing you comply with the rules on combo tickets. I can't quote it now as I am on a PDA but it's in there!

Thanks Yorkie, but please will you post the link, so I/We can have proof on paper, that this is the case, incase a TM etc tries to wrongly charge me the excess?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

You are refering to this?:

19. Using a combination of tickets

You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover
the entire journey and one of the following applies:

(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit their use);
(b) the train you are in calls at the station where you change from one ticket to
another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season
Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or
local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not.

You must comply with any restriction shown on the tickets relating to travel in the
trains of a particular Train Company or Train Companies (see Condition 10).
If you do not comply with this Condition, you will be treated as having joined the
train without a ticket and the relevant parts of Condition 2 or 4 will apply, either
to the entire journey, or from the last station where the train stopped at which at
least one of the tickets was valid.

For the purposes of this Condition, a “leisure travel pass” means any multi-journey
ticket (excluding Season Tickets) valid for:
(i) at least 7 consecutive days; or
(ii) at least 3 days in a period of at least 7 consecutive days
and includes rover tickets, travel passes, flexipass tickets and BritRail passes.

Perhaps you should refer to:

7. Train Company’s responsibilities

The Train Company whose trains you have the right to use, or who has agreed to provide you with any other goods or services, is responsible for providing the goods or services it has agreed to provide. However, the Train Company or its agent(s) are not responsible for:

(a) another Train Company not running any trains;
(b) another person not providing goods or services;
(c) any losses that occur while you are travelling on any other Train Company’s trains;
(d) any losses that occur while you are using those other goods or services.

However, each Train Company or its agent(s) will help you if you have a claim
(see Condition 63) or a complaint about your journey, either by dealing with the matter itself or by passing it on to the Train Company(s) or other person(s) providing the goods or services in question.

Therefore, the second ticket is not related to the first. Anyone involved in the first ticket has the responsibility to get you to the end of that ticket, the companies involved in the second ticket have a responsibility to get you from the start of that ticket to the end of it, there is no crossover.

EDIT: If the ticket is for use on one through train then clearly there is no issue as any delay or total cancellation would affect both tickets

If not, please show me what you are refering to.