Advance ticket - Wrong train.

[benonbanbury]

Hello and thanks for accepting me. Long time reader, but first time poster.

Today on my way back to London from Oxford. I had an advance ticket for the 9am Oxford to London Paddington service.

It cost me £13.

I mistakenly boarded a service 9 mins early. I was on the platform and was lost in a work call when the train arrived. I usually take the 9am service and it usually arrives a good few minutes early prior to departure so I assumed this was my train.

I boarded and sat down and cracked on with work. Shortly after leaving Oxford I’m asked for my ticket. I show the Revenue guy my ticket only for him to say I was on the wrong service and my ticket was invalid for this service. I pointed out that there was only a few minutes difference in the times but he insisted I was wrong to board with my ticket and it was my responsibility to insure my ticket was valid for the correct service.

I must point out it wasn’t an argument. The conversation was civilised and balanced from both sides. No anger from either side. We went back and forth a little until I relented and payed the full peak fare into Paddington. Which was £41.

I was given a fresh ticket and full receipt and to be fair, we did both leave the conversation on fair terms.

I have no qualms personally with the revenue inspector. More the fact I may have made an expensive mistake by not hanging on for 9 minutes.

My question is, is it worth getting in touch with GWR not regarding the staff member but about potentially getting some sort of money back?

Thanks for reading and I look forward to a balanced discussion.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hello and thanks for accepting me. Long time reader, but first time poster.

Today on my way back to London from Oxford. I had an advance ticket for the 9am Oxford to London Paddington service.

It cost me £13.

I mistakenly boarded a service 9 mins early. I was on the platform and was lost in a work call when the train arrived. I usually take the 9am service and it usually arrives a good few minutes early prior to departure so I assumed this was my train.

I boarded and sat down and cracked on with work. Shortly after leaving Oxford I’m asked for my ticket. I show the Revenue guy my ticket only for him to say I was on the wrong service and my ticket was invalid for this service. I pointed out that there was only a few minutes difference in the times but he insisted I was wrong to board with my ticket and it was my responsibility to insure my ticket was valid for the correct service.

I must point out it wasn’t an argument. The conversation was civilised and balanced from both sides. No anger from either side. We went back and forth a little until I relented and payed the full peak fare into Paddington. Which was £41.

I was given a fresh ticket and full receipt and to be fair, we did both leave the conversation on fair terms.

I have no qualms personally with the revenue inspector. More the fact I may have made an expensive mistake by not hanging on for 9 minutes.

My question is, is it worth getting in touch with GWR not regarding the staff member but about potentially getting some sort of money back?

Thanks for reading and I look forward to a balanced discussion.

Welcome to the forum!

I'm with the inspector on this one: you had a ticket for a particular train: you got on a different train, so you didn't have a valid ticket for your journey and needed to buy a valid ticket.

I'm not sure if there's a penalty scheme in place for GWR Oxford to Paddington: if there is then the inspector would have been within their rights to charge a penalty fare of £100 plus the usual fare. If there isn't (or even if there was), the inspector could have taken your details with an eye to prosecution for not having a valid ticket for the train you were on. So on balance, 'only' having to pay the proper fare is quite a good result - not just financially but because the whole issue is now closed and needn't worry you further.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'd still write in. They can only say no, even though the fare was charged correctly. Perhaps you may get some sort of goodwill gesture if it is your first time writing to them.

 

[Hadders]

It’s frustrating when you get caught out by something like this, a bit like getting a parking ticket.

You have been dealt with leniently here, you could’ve been given a Penalty Fare or even reported for prosecution and while you’re highly unlikely to have ended up in court you could’ve ended up paying an out of court settlement costing more than the £41 you’ve had to pay today.

There’s nothing stopping you from writing to GWR but I’d probably chalk it up to experience, to be honest.

 

[John R]

You appear to have been on the 0846, which left 5 mins late this morning, after which your train, identically formed, pulled into the same platform.

So very unlucky, and worth writing in and explaining that the lateness of the earlier train confused you into thinking it was yours. But as others have said, the penalty could have been much worse, so it seems as though the inspector was reasonable in how they handled the situation.

 

[greyman42]

You appear to have been on the 0846, which left 9 mins late this morning, after which your train, identically formed, pulled into the same platform.

So very unlucky, and worth writing in and explaining that the lateness of the earlier train confused you into thinking it was yours. But as others have said, the penalty could have been much worse, so it seems as though the inspector was reasonable in how they handled the situation.

In the circumstances that you have explained above, would not the inspector overlooking the discrepancy have been the reasonable way to handle the situation?

 

[Starmill]

If you believe that the primary reason that you accidentally boarded the wrong train is because of the delay, I would definitely write in to complain, and ask politely for the new ticket to be refunded.

If you believe the primary reason for your being on the wrong train was because you made a mistake, I would ignore what happened. The NRCoT allow for this charge to be made, it appears to have been done correctly. I don't think any interpretation of the NRCoT can view it as lenient, it's actually just correct, but that may be a matter of opinion.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2024 ==

In the circumstances that you have explained above, would not the inspector overlooking the discrepancy have been the reasonable way to handle the situation?

It depends if the customer believed they were travelling on the correct service or not.

 

[fairlie]

I know how you feel - happened to me a few years ago - caught the train previous to mine by mistake as it was running late and came in at the time mine should have been. I didn't realise what had happened, boarded and had to buy a new ticket... Very frustrating!

 

[30907]

You appear to have been on the 0846, which left 9 mins late this morning, after which your train, identically formed, pulled into the same platform.

It arrived at 0849 and left 0851 which is +5 and well before the OP's normal train (which would not have had any passengers on arrival), so very unobservant.

That said, there is no significant difference in fares between the two trains (Advance or Anytime) so obviously no attempt to gain advantage. A polite letter (not a complaint - the staff member behaved perfectly well) asking if they would refund the fare as a gesture of goodwill would be in order IMO.

 

[John R]

It arrived at 0849 and left 0851 which is +5 and well before the OP's normal train (which would not have had any passengers on arrival), so very unobservant.

That said, there is no significant difference in fares between the two trains (Advance or Anytime) so obviously no attempt to gain advantage. A polite letter (not a complaint - the staff member behaved perfectly well) asking if they would refund the fare as a gesture of goodwill would be in order IMO.

Yes, slip on my part, I meant 5 mins, which was then 9 mins before the train they were due to catch.

 

[Starmill]

so very unobservant.

I'm not sure that follows. The train was around five minutes out of the usual time. Who'd notice if there were already passengers or how many? Wrong, obviously. But an easy mistake to make.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2024 ==

I know how you feel - happened to me a few years ago - caught the train previous to mine by mistake as it was running late and came in at the time mine should have been. I didn't realise what had happened, boarded and had to buy a new ticket... Very frustrating!

If departure was a) the correct operator and b) within a minute of booked time, it's unlikely that any argument can even be made that the ticket isn't valid.

 

[John R]

I'm not sure that follows. The train was around five minutes out of the usual time. Who'd notice if there were already passengers or how many? Wrong, obviously. But an easy mistake to make.

Moreover, all the passenger knows is that they are catching a train that leaves Oxford at 0900. They wouldn’t need to or be expected to know whether or not the train starts from there or further up the line, and thus whether it would be occupied or empty on arrival.

 

[greyman42]

It depends if the customer believed they were travelling on the correct service or not.

They stated in #1 that they thought they were on the correct service.

 

[Starmill]

They stated in #1 that they thought they were on the correct service.

Apologies I should have been clearer. I couldn't quite follow if that was definitely what they told the member of GWR staff or not. If it were me I'd make that point as clear as I could while accepting that if I were on the wrong service I'd be happy to pay for a new ticket.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2024 ==

Moreover, all the passenger knows is that they are catching a train that leaves Oxford at 0900. They wouldn’t need to or be expected to know whether or not the train starts from there or further up the line, and thus whether it would be occupied or empty on arrival.

Exactly. That's a poor guide indeed because a train could arrive in service without anyone sitting in that part of the train for all they know.

 

[fairlie]

I'm not sure that follows. The train was around five minutes out of the usual time. Who'd notice if there were already passengers or how many? Wrong, obviously. But an easy mistake to make.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2024 ==


If departure was a) the correct operator and b) within a minute of booked time, it's unlikely that any argument can even be made that the ticket isn't valid.

Yes, it was same operator (I would have noticed a different kind of train!) and at the same time. It's a few years ago now - I did protest to the guard but he was having none of it. I probably should have challenged it with the ToC at the time.

 

[wilbers]

Given they both stopped at Reading would another option for the guard have been to charge for a new Oxford-Reading peak single, and endorse the original ticket for boarding the following (correct) train there?

 

[CyrusWuff]

I'm not sure if there's a penalty scheme in place for GWR Oxford to Paddington: if there is then the inspector would have been within their rights to charge a penalty fare of £100 plus the usual fare.

Both Chiltern and GWR have Penalty Fare schemes, though Oxford isn't a Compulsory Ticket Area.

 

[najaB]

If departure was a) the correct operator and b) within a minute of booked time, it's unlikely that any argument can even be made that the ticket isn't valid.

From a layman's perspective, yes. But I wouldn't advise trying that with a RPI who's in a less-than-charitable mood as you could end up in court!

Advance tickets are valid on specific services (ignoring "+connections"), and a train service isn't defined by departure and/or origin times.

 

[etr221]

From a layman's perspective, yes. But I wouldn't advise trying that with a RPI who's in a less-than-charitable mood as you could end up in court!

Advance tickets are valid on specific services (ignoring "+connections"), and a train service isn't defined by departure and/or origin times.

If a passenger buys an Advance ticket, are they provided any information identifying the service other than the departure and arrival times when they join and leave the service? If that's all the railway provides, I would say that defines the service.

 

[najaB]

If a passenger buys an Advance ticket, are they provided any information identifying the service other than the departure and arrival times when they join and leave the service?

Depends on the retailer. However, every PIS I have seen identifies a late-running service as such with the original and expected departure times both noted.

 

[Haywain]

are they provided any information identifying the service other than the departure and arrival times when they join and leave the service?

There's generally departure boards and announcements at stations.