Advance Query

[headshot119]

This has come up on another forum. To outline the scenario we have a passenger in possession of a child advance from Clunderwen to London Paddington. The passenger wishes to board there booked train at Llanelli instead of Clunderwen, I am well aware this is not permitted.

However let's say the passenger boards the train at Llanelli with the advance, what is the correct course of action from the guard?

For the purposes of this thread, let's assume the booking office at Llanelli was open.

 

[soil]

Excess to a LLE - London ticket as appropriate according to the time of travel (SVS, SSS, SOS), issue a UPFN if no payment is forthcoming.

 

[156441]

Assuming the child is actually a child, a UPFN cannot be issued as a debt cannot be placed on a person under 18. So therefor a TIR would be the correct course of action if no payment was forthcoming?

 

[Squaddie]

In practice, though, all the passenger has to do is to buy a single ticket from Llanelli to Swansea, where he can board the FGW service he's booked on...

 

[yorkie]

Well, as we know from the FGW Exeter/Newton Abbot-Paddington dispute that hit the headlines a few weeks ago, ATOC issued guidance to TOCs that no excess should be charged in these circumstances. FGW indicated they now comply with that, so I believe the correct action would be for the guard to charge no excess.

However, the NRCoC does allow for an excess to be charged, of the difference in fares between the price paid and the cheapest available ticket (e.g. Super Off Peak Single). There is a myth that if you "break your journey" (which is what starting/finishing short is lumped under) when not permitted incurs a new ticket, not quite sure why this myth is so widespread given the NRCoC states clearly that it's an excess.

 

[LexyBoy]

Well, as we know from the FGW Exeter/Newton Abbot-Paddington dispute that hit the headlines a few weeks ago, ATOC issued guidance to TOCs that no excess should be charged in these circumstances. FGW indicated they now comply with that, so I believe the correct action would be for the guard to charge no excess.

So starting short on an Advance is now de facto allowed?

Secondly, if an excess were charged would the £10 admin fee apply? If not, a passenger would be better off just boarding than "doing the right thing" and amending their ticket at the booking office, which seems wrong.

 

[bb21]

So starting short on an Advance is now de facto allowed?

While my interpretation and views on this subject has not been popular with some on this forum, having met and spoken to a member of ex-BR staff, I am happy to accept that the industry consensus appears to be that a passenger should not be penalised if starting short. This was never BR's intention and it would appear that this principle has largely remained.

This is not to say that you will not experience problems if you do start short on an Advance ticket, as technically this is not permitted. In addition, if this is abused, the terms might well be altered in the future.

 

[soil]

Isn't 'abuse' anything that saves the passenger money?

 

[bb21]

Isn't 'abuse' anything that saves the passenger money?

I leave readers to interpret the meaning of the word themselves.

 

[jb]

While my interpretation and views on this subject has not been popular with some on this forum, having met and spoken to a member of ex-BR staff, I am happy to accept that the industry consensus appears to be that a passenger should not be penalised if starting short.

Unless my reading comprehension or memory is off, the ATOC guidance earlier reported by yorkie does not give carte blanche to start short, only "if there is no clear attempt to avoid the fare due" or something like that. Thus the infamous £7 single from Milton Keynes to Euston is still, at least theoretically, not on.

Presumably here the fare structure is different and there is no clear price differential.

 

[bb21]

Unless my reading comprehension or memory is off, the ATOC guidance earlier reported by yorkie does not give carte blanche to start short,

It certainly does not give passengers the right to start short.

This is merely guidance. I do not recommend starting short.