Advance Purchase tickets - connecting services

[Z12XE]

If I've got some advance purchase tickets for a journey which requires using two trains, but the first train doesn't offer seat reservations. My tickets dont specifiy which train to be on (although the journey planner did) - can I therefore get an earlier service from my origin station (would still be off peak)?
This would be for a Marks Tey to London ticket as part of a journey to Liverpool.

I'm thinking yes as there would be no way an RPI etc could tell

I know the bit from Euston would be on the booked service as I have seat reservation for this.

Thanks

 

[tannedfrog]

I'm thinking yes as well, it's maybe even preferable to do so because it can be hassle to get the ticket endorsed to use on the second train, if the first train is late

 

[yorkie]

If I've got some advance purchase tickets for a journey which requires using two trains, but the first train doesn't offer seat reservations. My tickets dont specifiy which train to be on (although the journey planner did) - can I therefore get an earlier service from my origin station

Yes.

(would still be off peak)?

This would be for a Marks Tey to London ticket as part of a journey to Liverpool.

Irrelevant I think, as it's not an Off Peak ticket, but if it was, all trains from Marks Tey to London are 'off peak' on a Marks Tey to Liverpool ticket. This is because Marks Tey is inside the Network area and Liverpool is not.

I'm thinking yes as there would be no way an RPI etc could tell

Indeed

I know the bit from Euston would be on the booked service as I have seat reservation for this.

Thanks

Correct. It makes sense to get an earlier connection to London to be sure of making it, if the arrival time into Liverpool is important to you. That's what I'd do.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm thinking yes as well, it's maybe even preferable to do so because it can be hassle to get the ticket endorsed to use on the second train, if the first train is late

I am not aware of any requirement for a ticket to be endorsed if you are delayed while travelling.

If delays occur while
travelling, they will be
allowed to take the next
available train(s) to complete
their journey.

However if I was delayed by any other method, such as a (non rail) bus journey, or a road traffic incident, etc, then I'd ask for the ticket to be 'endorsed' as there is no requirement for the TOCs to honour the ticket in such a case. e.g. due to York Races I was once delayed by about an hour by bus, I had allowed 1 hour for a 20 minute bus journey but it took about 1 hour 10 minutes and I missed the train. I had to get the ticket endorsed for that journey for my ticket to be valid, which I did. If this had been a connecting train e.g. a train from Poppleton that was approx 1 hour late, I would not have wasted time potentially missing another train just to get my ticket 'endorsed' when there is no requirement to do so!

 

[Z12XE]

Correct. It makes sense to get an earlier connection to London to be sure of making it, if the arrival time into Liverpool is important to you. That's what I'd do.

Thanks, likely that we will get the one the hour earlier - to give some time in London to get a few bits etc and to allow for the inevitable NXEA farce....!

 

[rail-britain]

Advance tickets on trains without a reservation system are a laugh!

I am planning a journey between Crewe and Rugby
The advance fare is £16.00 (£8.00 single) the return is £12.00
The advance fares on this are pointless

 

[OwlMan]

Advance tickets on trains without a reservation system are a laugh!

I am planning a journey between Crewe and Rugby
The advance fare is £16.00 (£8.00 single) the return is £12.00
The advance fares on this are pointless

Not if you are only going one way, or want to travel in the mornings (first arrival possible at Rugby is 1213 M-F)
or wish to travel back in the evening peak.

Peter

 

[yorkie]

Not if you are only going one way, or want to travel in the mornings (first arrival possible at Rugby is 1213 M-F)
or wish to travel back in the evening peak.

Peter

If fares are ever truly simplified, all current return fares (e.g. SOR, SVR, etc) would be available as single fares at half the return price. If the powers that be ever want any chance of introducing 'smart card' ticketing, then that's an important first step. In addition a rule should be introduced stating that AP single fares should never exceed something like 75 or 80% of the walk-on single fare. There would be less anomalies, passengers would not be ripped-off so much, and would feel like valued customers rather than feel that the TOCs are out to rip them off.

 

[rail-britain]

The whole point of an advance ticket is that it restricts you to ONE train, booking in advance

Trains that don't have reservations mean that although you are still paying in advance you can travel on ANY service

For Crewe - Rugby I was only comparing the return fare
The Advance single is £8.00
The All Day single is £22.00
That makes sense, but still means you can travel on any train on that day with either ticket
A return still makes more sense (at £12.00)

 

[yorkie]

I think the LM AP fares on that route are restricted to a specific train but without a specific reserved seat.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I think the LM AP fares on that route are restricted to a specific train but without a specific reserved seat.

Yes, I think they work on the "counted places" system, which is the same as South West Trains use and which Transpennine will be using on trains going through York on York Races Days.

Basically, as mentioned, your Advance ticket is restricted to certain train as normal, but you don't have a seat reservation.

There are plus and negative points to this system. On the plus side it means Advance fares can be offered for journeys where no reservations are used and hence cheaper AP fares wouldn't normally be available. On the minus side, as you don't have a reservation you don't get a guaranteed seat, and can't claim compensation when the TOC fails to provide the aforementioned reserved seat. This, I suspect is why TPE will be using this system on York Races days when the trains are rammed full of complete idiots and trying to apply and enforce seat reservations is nearly impossible.

 

[bb21]

... due to York Races I was once delayed by about an hour by bus, I had allowed 1 hour for a 20 minute bus journey but it took about 1 hour 10 minutes and I missed the train. I had to get the ticket endorsed for that journey for my ticket to be valid, which I did. If this had been a connecting train e.g. a train from Poppleton that was approx 1 hour late, I would not have wasted time potentially missing another train just to get my ticket 'endorsed' when there is no requirement to do so!

This is interesting. I assume that you're talking about an AP ticket. I had a similar situation a few months back when I allowed an extra hour for a bus connection but the bus was over 2 hours late. As a result I missed my megatrain service at Salisbury and currently a second 'very angry' letter is with Wilts & Dorset waiting for a response. In that situation could I have got the megatrain ticket endorsed? By whom? If so then the person at the gateline was telling massive porkies and I shall be writing to SWT about this. (Now I know them at SWT try to claim that megatrain is a separate entity however I fail to see how a closely-linked Stagecoach product can be treated as so.)

Any views on this yorkie?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

This is interesting. I assume that you're talking about an AP ticket. I had a similar situation a few months back when I allowed an extra hour for a bus connection but the bus was over 2 hours late. As a result I missed my megatrain service at Salisbury and currently a second 'very angry' letter is with Wilts & Dorset waiting for a response. In that situation could I have got the megatrain ticket endorsed? By whom? If so then the person at the gateline was telling massive porkies and I shall be writing to SWT about this. (Now I know them at SWT try to claim that megatrain is a separate entity however I fail to see how a closely-linked Stagecoach product can be treated as so.)

Any views on this yorkie?

It depends on what your ticket is for. If the bus journey is part of the ticket then yes, you should be able to continue your journey on a later train - but you should get you ticket marked before boarding the train to ensure that there aren't any issues with on train staff.

If the bus is nothing to do with the rail journey ticket - i.e. you are just using it as your means of getting to the station, then unfortunately it is tough - you are not entitled to travel on a later train. The usual disclaimers about the train operator not being responsible for outside factors (i.e. how you get to the station) will apply.

Examples of the first case might be the Megatrain / bus combined service from Yorkshire to London via EMT changing from bus to train at East Midlands Parkway. As you have a through ticket and the services are advertised as connecting, if the bus was delayed then you should be able to travel on a a later train.

Example of the latter would be you using a local bus service with a separate ticket that is nothing to do with the rail service or ticket you have. If that was delayed in congestion and you mssed your train then the train company would not be obliged to carry you on a later train - HOWEVER, they may allow you to catch a later train if there are some exceptional circumstances affecting many passengers - e.g. very severe congestion meaning many people are late. They would be under no obligation to do this, but may choose to do so a gesture of goodwill.

 

[yorkie]

You have less rights with Megatrain, and it is a pretty 'faceless' organisation, yes it is part of Stagecoach but it's very easy for them to use the 'different company' line.

I got mine endorsed by a member of staff at the station. In the unlikely event of the same thing happening, I'd look to see if he is on duty and ask him again. He said he uses buses himself and knows they are unreliable on such occasions. I'm not going to reveal who he is but he was at the station when we went there to see theblackwatch and yorksrob onto their trains after the last York meal meet.

They're not obliged to endorse it in such circumstances, but it's good customer service to do so.

As it happened, the guard didn't come round anyway, but that's beside the point.

I would write to the bus company, and if no satisfactory response is recieved, write to your MP stating that transport is not well integrated and that if the Government wish to encourage people to use public transport, there needs to be a system that does not penalise the customer further when one part of the public transport lets you down.

 

[wibble]

This is interesting. I assume that you're talking about an AP ticket. I had a similar situation a few months back when I allowed an extra hour for a bus connection but the bus was over 2 hours late. As a result I missed my megatrain service at Salisbury and currently a second 'very angry' letter is with Wilts & Dorset waiting for a response. In that situation could I have got the megatrain ticket endorsed? By whom? If so then the person at the gateline was telling massive porkies and I shall be writing to SWT about this. (Now I know them at SWT try to claim that megatrain is a separate entity however I fail to see how a closely-linked Stagecoach product can be treated as so.)

Any views on this yorkie?

This will depend on the ticket(s) you had for your journey:

If you had a megatrain reference from Yeovil to Waterloo, with a replacement bus service from Yeovil to Salisbuiry, your megatrain reference would be valid on the next train from Salisbury.

If you had one ticket to Salisbury, then a megatrain reference from Salisbury to Waterloo, then your megatrain reference wouldn't be valid and you'd have to buy another ticket.

If you were getting a normal scheduled bus service and missed your megatrain service, you would also have to buy a new train ticket.

Megatrain is a Stagecoach product, but SWT provide the service. Any complaints about the service rail service, replacement bus service, staff complaints etc should be directed to SWT.