Advance price increase since yesterday (effective end Feb)

[trainophile]

Last night I booked two Advance tickets for £12 and £9.50 respectively, to travel on 21st and 25th Feb.

Just checking the Eastcoast site for something else and notice that the same journeys on the same trains are now showing £13 and £10 respectively.

I'm presuming this is the inevitable annual increase (when I started regularly going on this route in 2008 they were £10) so a 30% increase in three years. I don't suppose the same price controls apply for Advance tickets as for commuter routes.

Incidentally is it cheeky to ask if anyone knows whether Club55 will be operating in the Spring again (specifically on ATW), as I don't want to book too far ahead if so!

 

[yorkie]

The next fares change occurs at the beginning of January.

Advance fares at the lowest tiers sell out fast, for popular trains you need to book them on the day they go on sale.

We got the 1830 from KGX for a date in late February for about £10 each on Thursday. Now the price is £32.50, just 4 days later. You have to act fast!

 

[trainophile]

Yes I know (thanks for replying though). I'm sure this is the annual price increase - seem to remember it being around the same time last year. The journey I make usually has a row of £12 departure times (I always book pretty much as soon as they are released) but since last night these are now all showing £13. I was half expecting it tbh.

I've just checked and they have backdated the increased prices w.e.f. start of January, so I was lucky to have booked almost two months worth before they applied the new price tariff. I go up and back every week btw.

Incidentally there is something a bit odd on the booking software on that website. I recently discovered by accident that there was one train per weekday at £9.50 (will be £10), all the rest being £12 (will be £13). This goes via Chester and Crewe (my journey is Southport to Hereford), so involves an extra change, but that doesn't bother me. If I query on "via CTR" it shows up, but if I put in "via CRE" it doesn't! I suppose the mixing system can't be 100% foolproof but I'm annoyed that I might have missed out on a year of £2.50 savings, as the time of the cheaper one is suitable for my needs.

 

[barrykas]

Perfectly normal...

Where tickets are sold four weeks (or less) before the fares change date, for travel after the fares change date, they're sold at the new fare.

In this case, the Fares Change Date is 2nd January 2011, so the new fares should be used from today.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[trainophile]

Do you mean "four weeks or more" not "or less"? e.g. tickets I booked at the beginning of November for travel at end of January were charged the old price, although that is well over four weeks before the effective increase date.

Any comment on the 8% increase, while inflation is I believe still well below that?

Oh well I should just be grateful that there are Advance tickets at all. There aren't any from Chester to Hereford and reverse, so by booking Southport to Hereford I am going twice as far for half the price. Doesn't make sense but who am I to question the intricacies of rail pricing.

 

[button_boxer]

That's exactly what he said - if you buy a ticket within the last four weeks before the change date for travel after the change date then you're charged the post-change fare. If you buy earlier than four weeks before the change you pay the pre-change fare.

 

[MCR247]

Isn't this just the next quota of advance tickets?

 

[ainsworth74]

Wait surely this price jump doesn't actually have anything to do with fare increases coming into effect but everything to do with the quota system in place on Advance fares? In other words the tickets that the OP bought yesterday have sold out and the next quota of advance fares for that journey have therefore been released at a higher price. Or am I missing something

 

[MCR247]

Thats what I was thinking

 

[trainophile]

No, I'm pretty familiar with the various levels of Advance tickets on this route, having booked it about 150 times in the last 2.5 years. On release, they are (were) either £12, £15 or £19, presumably depending on popularity of the individual train. The £12 were in the majority, comprising about 70% of the available options. After a week or so the £12 would start to fizzle out, to be replaced by £15, £19 or £22 (I think - never left it that late!) ones, but there might still be the occasional £12 on offer. I have found £12 ones still available a couple of days (or even a day) before travel. Luckily my route is not a particularly popular one, especially out of the holiday season.

Booking yesterday there was a string of £12 ones, it being 11 weeks until the date of travel, but today they are all £13. It's as if a new pricing structure has been put into the system overnight. The same tickets were £10 in 2008 and £11 in 2009, so it seems to increment by £1 a year.

Apologies to barrykas for the confusion over "more" or "less" weeks - I got myself in a muddle. Thanks to button_boxer for clarifying.

 

[danfitz123]

Wait surely this price jump doesn't actually have anything to do with fare increases coming into effect but everything to do with the quota system in place on Advance fares? In other words the tickets that the OP bought yesterday have sold out and the next quota of advance fares for that journey have therefore been released at a higher price. Or am I missing something

Im pretty sure that this is the case. Could be wrong though

 

[MikeWh]

Perfectly normal...

Where tickets are sold four weeks (or less) before the fares change date, for travel after the fares change date, they're sold at the new fare.

In this case, the Fares Change Date is 2nd January 2011, so the new fares should be used from today.

Cheers,

Barry

Come on guys, this explanation fits exactly what the OP has described. Barry is a knowledgeable person on this sort of query. It has nothing to do with quotas and everything to do with when new fares are applied to advance sales. It's a new one for me and certainly something worth knowing at this time of year.

@trainophile: rail fares can only be multiples of 10p for adults and it is quite possible that the cheapest advance fares are multiples of £1. I don't think advances are regulated so it's up to the TOC how much they go up by.

 

[moonrakerz]

Advance fares seem to be open to all sorts of jiggery-pokery.......

On a route I use regularly I nearly always was able to get an Advance at £11, then it became more difficult to get this fare but a new fare of £19 started to appear. Now the £11 fare has vanished completely and the £19 fare is the cheapest available - about as "easily" as the old £11 fare used to be:
£19 - £11 /£11 = 73% increase in just over a year Nice one SWT !

 

[wibble]

I'm presuming this is the inevitable annual increase (when I started regularly going on this route in 2008 they were £10) so a 30% increase in three years. I don't suppose the same price controls apply for Advance tickets as for commuter routes.

Advance fares are not regulated and a TOC can charge what they like for them. The fare can be changed in either of the January, May or September fares rounds, although most changes take place in January.

 

[trainophile]

Advance fares seem to be open to all sorts of jiggery-pokery.......

On a route I use regularly I nearly always was able to get an Advance at £11, then it became more difficult to get this fare but a new fare of £19 started to appear. Now the £11 fare has vanished completely and the £19 fare is the cheapest available - about as "easily" as the old £11 fare used to be:
£19 - £11 /£11 = 73% increase in just over a year Nice one SWT !

Heck I don't like the sound of that! Other TOCs please DON'T take note!

 

[wibble]

Advance fares seem to be open to all sorts of jiggery-pokery.......

On a route I use regularly I nearly always was able to get an Advance at £11, then it became more difficult to get this fare but a new fare of £19 started to appear. Now the £11 fare has vanished completely and the £19 fare is the cheapest available - about as "easily" as the old £11 fare used to be:
£19 - £11 /£11 = 73% increase in just over a year Nice one SWT !

Is that £11 for the cheapest Standard Class Advance and £19 for the cheapest First Class Advance fare by any chance? I don't suppose you're looking at travel over the Christmas period...?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Heck I don't like the sound of that! Other TOCs please DON'T take note!

They do that already (especially Virgin, East Coast and EMT) - it's called demand management!

 

[cuccir]

Is there still a set % of tickets or % price that advances are at? I vaguely remember that they used to all be labelled 'advance band a', 'advance band b' etc...

 

[kyrano]

Is there still a set % of tickets or % price that advances are at? I vaguely remember that they used to all be labelled 'advance band a', 'advance band b' etc...

Freedom of south west 3 in 7 now I don't want to fill in a box
So I get a extra day ,what I need to know are fGW guards at exeter not bothered and look at the main date,so I will hide the one I have tofill in ,and flash it thanks.

 

[theblackwatch]

Freedom of south west 3 in 7 now I don't want to fill in a box
So I get a extra day ,what I need to know are fGW guards at exeter not bothered and look at the main date,so I will hide the one I have tofill in ,and flash it thanks.

I'm sure the FGW staff and management on here will be reading your comment with interest. It was removed the first time, but as you insist on telling the world that you want to commit fraud, why should we bother again?

 

[moonrakerz]

Is that £11 for the cheapest Standard Class Advance and £19 for the cheapest First Class Advance fare by any chance? I don't suppose you're looking at travel over the Christmas period...?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That is for the same ticket (1st Class on a railcard) - why would I compare two different class of tickets ?
I don't go ANYWHERE over Xmas

It has got so difficult to get Advance tickets from SWT at a sensible price that our next trip to London (in Jan) is with FGW (booked about a month ago). It is costing £15.20 e/w(1st), plus a couple of quid to park the car (5 miles from here) - for that we get a nice refurbished HST, free tea and bikkies on the train and use of the 1st Class lounge at Paddington.

I don't really understand SWT's logic in what they are doing. SWT are more convenient for me, even if their staff obviously haven't been to Charm School for some time, they would be my first choice.
Rail privatisation has worked for me - I really do have a choice. If SWT can't provide what I want (as they used to !) I'll take my trade - and money - elsewhere.

 

[island]

Is there still a set % of tickets or % price that advances are at? I vaguely remember that they used to all be labelled 'advance band a', 'advance band b' etc...

Well, there are separate three-letter ticket codes for each different price level. I doubt there is a % of price, and the proportion of tickets that will be available at any given advance fare on any given day will be a function of demand. Yield management all the way.