Adoption and Fostering by non-standard couples

[Coxster]

how would their peers know what life is like at home?

If both parents wanted to go to a parent's evening, birthday parties that both parents are likely to both want to go to etc are possible times when it could be 'found out'?

As for my opinions on some things in this thread, I don't doubt that gay couples could bring up a child as well as straight ones, but I don't think it's at all fair to say that they would definately be any better at it than a straight couple. Just because they have to go through 'a lot' to get a child, it does not mean that they would love and care for the child any more than a straight couple would. Sounds to me like people are saying gay couples make amazing parents, and that straight couples are inferior.

Also, kids that were bullied at school seem to turn out much better than the kids that did the bullying.

That may be true - I don't know - but, in my opinion, the child shouldn't have to go through any unnecassery bullying in the first place.

 

[Gizmogle]

Gay parents can raise a child just as good as straight parents. Parenting skills aren't affected by sexuality. There are good and bad parents of different sexualities.

And yes me123, my Mum seemed quite upset at the fact I obviously wasn't going to go and get myself pregnant by the age of 19. (lol ) She may still get grandchildren, I don't know. But she still goes on about it alot.

 

[Jordy]

Sounds to me like people are saying gay couples make amazing parents, and that straight couples are inferior.

I certainly didn't mean that, was more in reference to chav upbringings (although this is still not always the case of course!)

 

[Coxster]

I certainly didn't mean that, was more in reference to chav upbringings (although this is still not always the case of course!)

I was more referring to this statement:-

Gay parents who have gone through all the effort to have a child are going to be much better parents.

 

[Gizmogle]

Sounds to me like people are saying gay couples make amazing parents, and that straight couples are inferior.

Definately not. There are problems that come with gay parenting, as are there problems with straight parenting.

Straight parents are by no means inferior, but there is a much higher chance that they're going to end up with children that they don't want or are not ready for.

Again, gay parents have the time to prepare for a child, and have to go through the hassle of finding a sperm donor/surrogate mother or getting a child from a foster or adoption agency (or whatever they are). They obviously really want a child if they're ready to go through that. There's not really a chance that after a night of unprotected sex, they're going to end up with an unwanted child.

Some gay parents may well be terrible parents (infact, there was an episode of Wife Swap with two lesbians with kids. They lived of benefits and their kids had no respect for their mothers. Although one was just their step mother. It was a big mess)

EDIT: Coxster: I should have put that they're more likely to be good parents, as they're ready and prepared for the child. But still, there's a chance they may not know what they're getting theirselves into, etc...

 

[Craig]

Surely each case if different depending on the individuals involved? One heterosexual 'chav' couple could make much better parents than a gay couple. But the opposite could equally be true depending on the particular people concerned.

 

[Nym]

Their actions could rub off on their child? That's the case with any set of parents.

The majority of parents of straight, male and female parents. They have a child, and assume that child will be straight. That child will most likely assume they're straight, as they've been raised in an almost fully straight community.
My parents 'straight' actions obviously didn't rub off on me, and for quite a while, I was ignoring my feelings, as I just assumed I must have been straight. I didn't know any gay people, or what was going on in my head. It's not something I could talk to my straight parents about in fear that they wouldn't understand or be disappointed in me. My mother cried when I told her.

Well, where do I start, if they only have reference to a straight existance and they are gay, then they're going to assume what they want to be or are is wrong and then it ends up in a stream of self hatrid, leading to depression, increased bullying, and higher levels of suicide and daily stress.

 

[Gizmogle]

Yes, I believe there is a much higher level of self harm and suicide in homosexuals.
(Although that may not be fact, but I read it somewhere)

 

[Tom B]

That may be true - I don't know - but, in my opinion, the child shouldn't have to go through any unnecassery bullying in the first place.

Quite. Unfortunately, a great many schools are incompetent in dealing with it.

 

[Nym]

Quite. Unfortunately, a great many schools are incompetent in dealing with it.

Every single school is incompitent, many ignore it...

 

[me123]

Yes, I believe there is a much higher level of self harm and suicide in homosexuals.
(Although that may not be fact, but I read it somewhere)

I've heard that as well. As bullying leads to these problems, the lack of awareness, tolerance and respect for homosexuals stil in society today will naturally increase the homosexual suicide rate. the only thing that can be done to stop it is to railse awareness from an early age, such as the recent billboard campaign is doing. Sadly, it will take many years for homosexually to be accepted on a bigger level in society due to old-fashioned biased views still being passed down through generations.

Quite. Unfortunately, a great many schools are incompetent in dealing with it.

Speaking from experience, our Principal (who was fired on Friday due to a rubbish HMIe Inspection ) talked about the evils of "theft, homocide, pronography and homosexuality" hock: and no-one seemed to care. But our school is Christian and they do tend to take the Bible a bit too literally at times...

 

[Nym]

I've heard that as well. As bullying leads to these problems, the lack of awareness, tolerance and respect for homosexuals stil in society today will naturally increase the homosexual suicide rate. the only thing that can be done to stop it is to railse awareness from an early age, such as the recent billboard campaign is doing. Sadly, it will take many years for homosexually to be accepted on a bigger level in society due to old-fashioned biased views still being passed down through generations.



Speaking from experience, our Principal (who was fired on Friday due to a rubbish HMIe Inspection ) talked about the evils of "theft, homocide, pronography and homosexuality" hock: and no-one seemed to care. But our school is Christian and they do tend to take the Bible a bit too literally at times...

If you remember my rant on the closed thread about the bible, I'll quote it for you in a second...

http://railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=195109&postcount=53

I tried and failed to make this fun!

The bible contains nothing that states that homosexuality is wrong or to be looked down on in any way. I don't know because I've not read all of it but I'm told it's a great story with loads of twists and turns, meaning it contridictes itself a lot. "My the lord spite man who sleep with another man" is from the days of sheparding, when you couldn't sleep on the job because all the sheep would leg it, in an agricutural era this made sense. But now that such texts are interprated by right wing city dwellers that don't know how food is made, or have never been outside the M25! They don't know what a farm is and their already extremist belifs are vented through christianity via this quote. So in essance, it's not the bible causinh this, it's the clergymen themselves. As for Islam, the Koran has nothing of the sorts in it either, because there is no urdu scripture for homosexuality, only sodimising rape, so rape of sodimy is not alowed, but you can't have it disalowed if the word doesn't exist, this is interpriatations and translations changing scripts to the whim of the interpritor again! I might invent my own religion that says that any religion that discriminates agaist anyone else, will be bombed, and because it's a religon I'll get away with it, if I instead started the bomb gaza campaign with no religion thats fine, but if I fight for god, I can kill as many pepole as I like! It's bloddy stupid!

So Don't blame the bible, the koran, the scrolls, the scriptures, no popular religion dis-alows homosexuality in it's scriptures, apart from Local BBC Radio Callers (Biggots Anomous)

 

[me123]

Not blaming the Bible as such, here, but clearly our school read WAY too much into it.

On the other hand, our SG Maths teacher is an open lesbian. hock: Talk about mixed messages.

 

[class 313]

Hmm...see, these people shouldn't be allowed kids if they're not ready for them. If they're not going to take full responsibility for their child, then they shouldn't have it in the first place! There's so many children born for the wrong reasons. "It'll fix our marriage", "I want a baby to dress up and play with!". It's idiots like that who are ruining our country. Their kids are the ones running around stabbing each other while their parents are busy smoking and drinking.

I think you will find that under-age mums can turn out to be great mums. Where is your proof that every chav mum will have their child/children growing up a junky or a smoke and such.

 

[Tom B]

Unfortunately, for a great many schools or incompetent head of years, it is far easier to say to the victim "just ignore it" than actually doing something about it. For several years, I was told to ignore it or ignore them, and if anything happened, invariably it would be me who was at the receiving end of a telling off - usually because I'd got so sick and retaliated.

 

[DescendingSadly]

It's idiots like that who are ruining our country. Their kids are the ones running around stabbing each other while their parents are busy smoking and drinking.

That's not fair.

 

[Metroland]

Not made up my mind on the issue, a lot depends on the people concerned and the circumstances. Anything must be better that sending the kids to a home similar that atrocious place in Jersey.

I seriously doubt half the people that are parents should be parents, for all sorts of reasons. Kids need a very stable background with lots of support, and in some cases various children are demonstrably worse off in some households than with a couple of say lesbians in good jobs in a stable relationship. What I think counts against is possible bullying from other kids at school (although perhaps these things should be faced) and a lack of role models from one or the other sex.

But look at this urchin:


* * * * *

‘A 21-year-old who fathered his first child at 13 is about to become a dad for the seventh time.

Keith Macdonald, from Washington, Tyne and Wear has been branded a "reckless Romeo" after it emerged that all his children are by different women.

He is reported to be living apart from the mother-to-be.

As he is unemployed he does not support his children financially, but Mr Macdonald says he has no plans to father any more children

'Not happy'

The north east has a high rate of teenage pregnancies, with 52 girls per 1,000 under 18 becoming pregnant, as opposed to an England average of 42.

Condom manufacturers also report low sales in the region.

Mr Macdonald said he did not want to have any more children and that his mother has strong views about the situation.

He said: "My mum's not happy about all these kids.
"She tells me to pack it in and keep it in my trousers."

* * * * *

Well yes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wear/5138444.stm

 

[Nym]

Heh, I never buy them

 

[Tom B]

The women he meets are presumably the type who wear a mattress on their back all the time.

There are pillocks like him, who will spend their life claiming benefits, drinking, smoking and procreating, to produce more who are like him - but the vast majority aren't like that.

Like the attitude of some older people of "all teenagers are thugs". If they said "all OAPs are thugs", there would be an outcry.

 

[Nym]

it was an OAP that stabed a young person to death in manchester last week

 

[Metroland]

The women he meets are presumably the type who wear a mattress on their back all the time.

There are pillocks like him, who will spend their life claiming benefits, drinking, smoking and procreating, to produce more who are like him - but the vast majority aren't like that.

Like the attitude of some older people of "all teenagers are thugs". If they said "all OAPs are thugs", there would be an outcry.

No, quite agree, there's people of all ages behave like pillocks.

 

[AlexS]

Providing they're willing, when the time comes, to give an unbiased version of the birds and the bees, as it were, I see absolutely no problem in using the same adoption criterion as everyone else.

 

[Nym]

Proberbly more unbiased than most pearents...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Proberbly more likley to talk about sex with our children anyway, as gay culture is generaly more open to the matter...

 

[AlexS]

Providing that it ain't at a stupidly young age, then that's good. Whether the kids are comfortable with parents talking about it though....!

 

[Nym]

kids are never comfortable taling about sex, they should be made comfortable talking about sex or they'll never talk about it

 

[me123]

Maybe this is where same-sex parents are a benefit. They feel that they can talk about these things with another person of the same sex present. It seems veryt awkward when a man and a woman discuss the matter. with their child.

 

[Nym]

That and m/f couples generaly don't discuss sex as much as m/m couples, I know this for a fact...

Sex to straight parents is dirty, for gay ones, it's a 3 a day thing (oh I wish)

Awful Spelling Mr Nym - Jordy

 

[Metroland]

Just doing some Chav arithmetic based on that 21 year old lad.

7 chavs by 21, first by 13
In 21 years if 7 have another 7 that’s 49
In 42 years if those 49 have another 7 each, that’s 343 chavs
In 63 years if those 343 chavs have 7 each, that’s 2,401 chavs
In 84 years if those 2,401 chavs have 7 each, that’s 16,807
In 105 years if those 16,807 have 7 each, that’s 117, 649 chavs
In 126 yeas if those 117, 649 have 7 each, that’s 823, 543 chavs –

Enough to take over the whole of Tyne and Wear.

 

[TheSlash]

Just doing some Chav arithmetic based on that 21 year old lad.

7 chavs by 21, first by 13
In 21 years if 7 have another 7 that’s 49
In 42 years if those 49 have another 7 each, that’s 343 chavs
In 63 years if those 343 chavs have 7 each, that’s 2,401 chavs
In 84 years if those 2,401 chavs have 7 each, that’s 16,807
In 105 years if those 16,807 have 7 each, that’s 117, 649 chavs
In 126 yeas if those 117, 649 have 7 each, that’s 823, 543 chavs –

Enough to take over the whole of Tyne and Wear.

Ah but you haven't included

• Stabbings
  Shootings
  Death by alcohol
  Death by lung cancer
  Drug overdose
  Any other chav past time

In situations like this one, i'm not convinced by studies, polls etc and generally ignore them, i'm convinced by proven results on an individual basis

On a similar topic, i caught a report on the radio tonight that said the latest missing child lived within a 25 mile radious of 1,400 convicted sex offenders

 

[Tom B]

Is that actually 1,400 convicted sex offenders, or is that 1,400 Daily Mail convicted sex offenders (i.e. people who have been convicted, OR who were arrested and subsequently released, OR who were questioned, OR who were considered, OR who look a bit dodgy and foreign)?