Additional Southeastern High Speed services

[squingo44]

Beyond the widely discusses expansion of HSSE commuter services to Hastings over an upgraded Marshlink Line, are there any other opportunities to expand the Southeastern High Speed network?

Services originating at Maidstone West on the Medway Valley line occupy capacity on the North Kent Line between Strood and Ebbsfleet International, which is a fairly congested section of track. A direct connection between the Medway Valley Line and HS1 would speed up journey times, and would allow Maidstone West services to be extended back as far as Paddock Wood, providing greater connectivity and more space for growth in the London commuter belt of Kent. This chord could split off the Medway Valley Line north of Halling, cross over the Chatham Main Line - with a new station to serve Cuxton on the chord, potentially serving as a an interchange station with the Chatham Main Line, before joining HS1 at a grade-separated junction on the land of the Cobham Park Golf Club. This would also probably provide the impetus to make Maidstone Barracks an interchange station, adding platforms on the Kent Downs Line.

Another idea would be to build a Maidstone Parkway station on HS1 next to the M20, which could connect to the Kent Downs line at Bearsted and serve the stations down to Charing. It might even serve to connect the Medway Valley line to this station at some west-facing bay platforms, so that passengers could interchange with HS1 services - if only this addition were added.

Network Rail have said they can find one additional path on the current peak-hour timetable, but what would be required to find more? A new HSSE fleet capable of full speed on the HS1 lines? Lowering headways? There are currently 7 HSSE services per hour terminating at St Pancras in the morning peak, along with 2-3 international services. Couldn't this ultimately be a lot higher?

 

[Trainguy34]

In theory, yes. In reality, no.

From my experience, the Medway Valley is decently served as it is by the services it has, and any potential service extensions would face problems regarding platform length along this line (Most stations are capped at 4 car).

Headways realistically can't be lowered from the current 3 minutes for safety (maybe 2½ min headways at most?), but that would involve extremely tight timetabling.

You would also have problems since, unless you run complicated skip-stopping services, all domestic services stop at Ebbsfleet and Stratford and therefore have to slow down for these whilst on the mainline, and also accelerate whilst on the mainline after the stops.

I'm not entirely sure that there are enough units to run many more services, so a new fleet would probably be required.

You would also end up likely having lots of delays as a result of Eurostars being late off the continent, particularly towards the evening peak. There are also the open access operators trying to run trains on HS1 (Virgin?), they would likely require 300/320km/h paths for their European services.

You may however be able to lengthen some existing services? The Medway Valley line is limited at 6-car, with the main stations (Paddock Wood, Maidstone West, Snodland), being able to only take 4, 6 and 8 car services respectively, but all other services should be able to take 12 car with some SDO that already occurs (e.g CBW).

I have thought of a Maidstone Parkway myself, maybe somewhere near the M20 Detling Jn (J7)? May lead to overcrowding though, and would presumably require long loops to have platforms on to allow continental services to overtake.

 

[squingo44]

From my experience, the Medway Valley is decently served as it is by the services it has, and any potential service extensions would face problems regarding platform length along this line (Most stations are capped at 4 car).

Looks like Maidstone West gets 4 TPH in the peak, but other stations along the line don't get any direct high speed service. Therefore I think that this upgrade would tip over the threshold for a lot of stations of the 4 TPH baseline needed to support housebuilding and wider development. It sounds like a wider upgrade to the Medway Valley line would be needed to make this proposal work - platform lengthenings, level crossing removals. I'm happy to bake the cost of that into the proposal.

Headways realistically can't be lowered from the current 3 minutes for safety (maybe 2½ min headways at most?), but that would involve extremely tight timetabling.

What would be needed to achieve 2½ minute headways? Resignalling?

You would also have problems since, unless you run complicated skip-stopping services, all domestic services stop at Ebbsfleet and Stratford and therefore have to slow down for these whilst on the mainline, and also accelerate whilst on the mainline after the stops.

Well, in peak hours all the international paths are flighted together every half an hour. So maybe it would be possible to run a pattern where a couple of the HSSE services immediately after the international paths skip stops, then the rest run all stops. Might be able to squeeze in a path or two more that way.

You may however be able to lengthen some existing services? The Medway Valley line is limited at 6-car, with the main stations (Paddock Wood, Maidstone West, Snodland), being able to only take 4, 6 and 8 car services respectively, but all other services should be able to take 12 car with some SDO that already occurs (e.g CBW).

Lengthening all other HSSE services to 12 cars is baked into the Network Rail strategy over the next decade or so. The Medway Valley line, like the Marshlink Line, would require significant redevlopment to support a full HSSE service.

I have thought of a Maidstone Parkway myself, maybe somewhere near the M20 Detling Jn (J7)? May lead to overcrowding though, and would presumably require long loops to have platforms on to allow continental services to overtake.

Looks like there should be space for fairly long loops around there. What overcrowding could it cause? How would you link a Maidstone Parkway station into the wider network?

I'm not entirely sure that there are enough units to run many more services, so a new fleet would probably be required.

Oh yeah, there's definitely not enough units for this. But they will need to procure a new fleet at some point anyway, and they'd probably time the Marshlink extension with the new fleet procurement, so maybe they could build this extension at the same time?

I think that in order to fit the maximum capacity on the line, it will be necessary that the HSSE services run at the maximum speed on the line. Would that be feasible, or would it require something like replacing the third rails everywhere on the network with overhead wires?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jul 2026 ==

You would also have problems since, unless you run complicated skip-stopping services, all domestic services stop at Ebbsfleet and Stratford and therefore have to slow down for these whilst on the mainline, and also accelerate whilst on the mainline after the stops.

Taking a look at this in more detail, I think it may be possible to flight services express from the branches going via Ashford International to run direct to St Pancras after the international trains, and then follow them up with a stopping train originating at Ashford. The interchange would allow for all passengers from Hastings/Dover/Canterbury to switch to one train that stopped at Ebbsfleet and Stratford, potentially more stations you'd like to build such as at Rainham or at Maidstone. And the express trains have shorter headways, allowing more total services within the flight. With two flights per hour, you could probably get an express service to each branch, along with stopping services to Ashford and to Faversham, and still have space for 2-3 international paths during peak hours.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Hastings on High speed services would be ideal if it wasn’t for the fact that it’s on the wrong side of Ashford to join HS1.

I watched a video the other day regarding HS1 on the Marshlink, its journey time to London is currently 1hr40 with the faster journey being 1h25 to Charing Cross, the Victoria service operated by Southern takes 2 hours

In contrast Folkestone on HS1 is only 50 mins to St.Pancras.

Hastings and Rye on HS1 has been a topic for years, but Rye commuters used to have a shuttle run to Ashford in the peaks which met a HS1 service and this took 1 hour which isn’t bad, but didn’t help Hastings much

 

[HSTEd]

Network Rail have said they can find one additional path on the current peak-hour timetable, but what would be required to find more? A new HSSE fleet capable of full speed on the HS1 lines? Lowering headways? There are currently 7 HSSE services per hour terminating at St Pancras in the morning peak, along with 2-3 international services. Couldn't this ultimately be a lot higher?

I suspect the limiting factor will rapidly become the platforms at St Pancras. I'm not sure you can do much about that without a very expensive rebuild or very expensive tunnel to put MML services into a very very expensive rebuilt Euston.

Only so much you can do with 3 240m platforms at the end of the day. In Japan they manage 15 trains per hour with 4, but I am not sure what you could do with only three.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jul 2026 ==

What would be needed to achieve 2½ minute headways? Resignalling?

Resignalling to ETCS could probably get you to ~20 trains per hour between St Pancras and Ebbsfleet, although fully utilising that would probably require a fleet of 300kph capable trains to save every ounce of capacity beyond Ebbsfleet, and routing some of the additional trains onto the classic lines at Ebbsfleet.

 

[squingo44]

Hastings on High speed services would be ideal if it wasn’t for the fact that it’s on the wrong side of Ashford to join HS1.

The programme to instate high speed services to Hastings will involve remodelling Ashford station to give direct, grade separated access to HS1, as well as electrifying the line, redoubling it, and increasing the line speed.

 

[Trainguy34]

What would be needed to achieve 2½ minute headways? Resignalling?

I'm not honestly sure that would do it seeing as it's all ETCS anyway, unless you go to ATO but that would be very difficult (and expensive!) imo.

Well, in peak hours all the international paths are flighted together every half an hour. So maybe it would be possible to run a pattern where a couple of the HSSE services immediately after the international paths skip stops, then the rest run all stops. Might be able to squeeze in a path or two more that way.

Maybe in theory, but there may be more international paths soon after Virgin etc get up and running, so they may become more spread out.

Lengthening all other HSSE services to 12 cars is baked into the Network Rail strategy over the next decade or so. The Medway Valley line, like the Marshlink Line, would require significant redevelopment to support a full HSSE service.

That's the problem, will that redevelopment be worth the cost? If it isn't, would it be worth building a sub fleet of 6-car trains for it?

Looks like there should be space for fairly long loops around there. What overcrowding could it cause? How would you link a Maidstone Parkway station into the wider network?

It could cause overcrowding since there's going to presumably be alot of people using it, particularly in the peaks. The trains are quite busy as it is, so I don't think that would stop. Perhaps as part of a larger-scale thing, maybe a tram in Maidstone could be suitable.

Oh yeah, there's definitely not enough units for this. But they will need to procure a new fleet at some point anyway, and they'd probably time the Marshlink extension with the new fleet procurement, so maybe they could build this extension at the same time?

That could work, would be quite expensive but necessary.

I think that in order to fit the maximum capacity on the line, it will be necessary that the HSSE services run at the maximum speed on the line. Would that be feasible, or would it require something like replacing the third rails everywhere on the network with overhead wires?

They all run overheads on HS1, it's only when they get onto the classics that they don't. Those would still need third rail for classic line services ran by 375/377s.

Taking a look at this in more detail, I think it may be possible to flight services express from the branches going via Ashford International to run direct to St Pancras after the international trains, and then follow them up with a stopping train originating at Ashford. The interchange would allow for all passengers from Hastings/Dover/Canterbury to switch to one train that stopped at Ebbsfleet and Stratford, potentially more stations you'd like to build such as at Rainham or at Maidstone. And the express trains have shorter headways, allowing more total services within the flight. With two flights per hour, you could probably get an express service to each branch, along with stopping services to Ashford and to Faversham, and still have space for 2-3 international paths during peak hours.

That sounds feasible in theory, I am by no means an expert though so who knows?
I presume you mean a station in Rainham Essex? I feel like that might be a bit overkill and make services too slow, but if you're running stoppers then maybe not.

 

[JonathanH]

The programme to instate high speed services to Hastings will involve remodelling Ashford station to give direct, grade separated access to HS1, as well as electrifying the line, redoubling it, and increasing the line speed.

It has been made clear in a number of threads that HS1 connection to Hastings will never happen, regardless of the supposed merits of it.

HS1 to Rye and Hastings, will ever happen?

A few years back there were ambitions for HS1 to be extended to Rye and Hastings (Eastbourne in the peaks), it would have connected Rye to London in less than an hour. Things have gone silent on this front, this may have been shelved due to Covid. But will this ever happen?

www.railforums.co.uk

A direct connection between the Medway Valley Line and HS1 would speed up journey times, and would allow Maidstone West services to be extended back as far as Paddock Wood, providing greater connectivity and more space for growth in the London commuter belt of Kent. This chord could split off the Medway Valley Line north of Halling, cross over the Chatham Main Line - with a new station to serve Cuxton on the chord, potentially serving as a an interchange station with the Chatham Main Line, before joining HS1 at a grade-separated junction on the land of the Cobham Park Golf Club.

How easily does this get over the critical issue of the elevation difference between HS1 and the Medway Valley route?

 

[squingo44]

I suspect the limiting factor will rapidly become the platforms at St Pancras. I'm not sure you can do much about that without a very expensive rebuild or very expensive tunnel to put MML services into a very very expensive rebuilt Euston.

You could extend the platform deck eastwards out over the road to fit an extra platform, would require some careful planning but entirely possible.

Only so much you can do with 3 240m platforms at the end of the day. In Japan they manage 15 trains per hour with 4, but I am not sure what you could do with only three.

You might be able to use one of the 400m platforms during the peak hours if you limit the number of International services to make way for commuter traffic?

Resignalling to ETCS could probably get you to ~20 trains per hour between St Pancras and Ebbsfleet, although fully utilising that would probably require a fleet of 300kph capable trains to save every ounce of capacity beyond Ebbsfleet, and routing some of the additional trains onto the classic lines at Ebbsfleet.

Yeah this prospective new fleet of HSSE trains would defo need to be running 300kph. I'm not sure about rerouting additional trains onto the classic lines though. If that were a good idea, wouldn't the ones that join HS1 at Ebbsfleet simply stay on the classic lines?

 

[Trainguy34]

You might be able to use one of the 400m platforms during the peak hours if you limit the number of International services to make way for commuter traffic?

Presuming you mean one of the E* platforms, this wouldn't be allowed due to customs clearance and border security.

 

[squingo44]

Maybe in theory, but there may be more international paths soon after Virgin etc get up and running, so they may become more spread out.

Well I'm kind of assuming that the international paths would be limited to staying flighted close together during peak hours to preserve capacity for the commuter services. I can definitely imagine a future where there are more international paths off-peak and commuter paths during peak.

That's the problem, will that redevelopment be worth the cost? If it isn't, would it be worth building a sub fleet of 6-car trains for it?

It's a bit of a truism, but any development on the railways around London will eventually pay itself back. Any extra capacity provided will be soaked over the following decades by new housebuilding. It's simply a matter of over what time horizon you feel the investment needs to pay itself back.

That sounds feasible in theory, I am by no means an expert though so who knows?
I presume you mean a station in Rainham Essex? I feel like that might be a bit overkill and make services too slow, but if you're running stoppers then maybe not.

Neither am I, I was just toying around with the timetable planning rules. I did mean Rainham Essex, a high speed station around there could be the focal point for lots of new development. I think that if the new fleet of HSSE trains is capable of 300kph, that would open up more space in the timetable for intermediate stations on the stopping services.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jul 2026 ==

Presuming you mean one of the E* platforms, this wouldn't be allowed due to customs clearance and border security.

Fair, guess we'll have to wait til we rejoin the EU and Schengen for that bit of operational freedom

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jul 2026 ==

How easily does this get over the critical issue of the elevation difference between HS1 and the Medway Valley route?

A longer chord gives more distance to close the gap?

It has been made clear in a number of threads that HS1 connection to Hastings will never happen, regardless of the supposed merits of it.

Never say never

 

[Mattplans]

This plan is trying to solve a problem that simply doesn't exist. All of this to improve the branch line that is the most sparsely used service Southeastern service at the moment. It's a real miracle that the operator can use other services to fund the Pdw>Strood shuttle's operating expenses as it definitely would not be self-sufficient.

Reminded me of the time an entire bridge inspection gantry fell on a train on the Medway Valley but nobody was injured because there was only one passenger on board.

 

[brad465]

One theoretical connection would be to Sharnal Street if this ever got revived, serving the Hoo Peninsula area. I suspect though it would be peak only and dependent on a decent patronage overall, as naturally it would only be served by Gravesend terminators extended here. The other issue with it is electrification; third rail is almost certainly not being approved, especially as the metro fleet order is intended to have batteries, so for HS1 services to serve here would require a fleet with batteries also, which I did float in this thread as part of expanding the fleet:

Possible future Southeastern HS1 fleet

The 395s are nowhere near the end of life, being 17 years into service and having just had a mid-life interior refurb. However, there are arguably not enough of them to manage demand, which recently hasn't been helped by the Ramsgate derailment unit repair. I'm not aware of the service's exact...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[HSTEd]

Yeah this prospective new fleet of HSSE trains would defo need to be running 300kph. I'm not sure about rerouting additional trains onto the classic lines though. If that were a good idea, wouldn't the ones that join HS1 at Ebbsfleet simply stay on the classic lines?

I meant you would need several trains per hour from St Pancras to leave HS1 at Ebbsfleet because ultimate capacity beyond there will be somewhat lower on account of the higher speed impacting braking distances.

 

[squingo44]

I meant you would need several trains per hour from St Pancras to leave HS1 at Ebbsfleet because ultimate capacity beyond there will be somewhat lower on account of the higher speed impacting braking distances.

What's the maximum capacity HS1 can support? 18 TPH?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jul 2026 ==

This plan is trying to solve a problem that simply doesn't exist. All of this to improve the branch line that is the most sparsely used service Southeastern service at the moment. It's a real miracle that the operator can use other services to fund the Pdw>Strood shuttle's operating expenses as it definitely would not be self-sufficient.

Reminded me of the time an entire bridge inspection gantry fell on a train on the Medway Valley but nobody was injured because there was only one passenger on board.

I really don't understand this perspective. The Ashford to Ramsgate line was much less used than the Dover branch of the Chatham Main Line until it was connected to HS1, which led to a complete transformation of the line - Canterbury West has overtaken Canterbury East in ridership. What makes you think that the same transformation wouldn't occur on the Medway Valley line?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jul 2026 ==

One theoretical connection would be to Sharnal Street if this ever got revived, serving the Hoo Peninsula area

What would this connection look like?

 

[brad465]

What would this connection look like?

If a HS1 service ever existed, it would be St Pancras-Stratford-Ebbsfleet-Gravesend-Sharnal Street. A secondary advantage of such a service in the peak would be that trains to the Medway Towns could skip Ebbsfleet* and Gravesend, freeing up space for Medway town passengers.

*Assuming the 395s can't changeover power source on the move, a new fleet with batteries would need this capability.

 

[Cambus731]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think there are any stop signals in the tunnel between Stratford and Dagenham? Presumably if trains were to become more frequent on HS1, then at least one stop signal would have to be installed to increase capacity between Ebbsfleet and Stratford?

 

[Trainguy34]

*Assuming the 395s can't changeover power source on the move, a new fleet with batteries would need this capability.

I think they can, not entirely sure though.

 

[TheWalrus]

This plan is trying to solve a problem that simply doesn't exist. All of this to improve the branch line that is the most sparsely used service Southeastern service at the moment. It's a real miracle that the operator can use other services to fund the Pdw>Strood shuttle's operating expenses as it definitely would not be self-sufficient.

Reminded me of the time an entire bridge inspection gantry fell on a train on the Medway Valley but nobody was injured because there was only one passenger on board.

The time I travelled Strood-Paddock Wood, it was relatively well loaded as far as Maidstone then very quiet onto Paddock Wood. Not sure why it justifies every 30 minutes south of Maidstone!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jul 2026 ==

I do wonder if the HS Faversham terminators could extend to Dover and maybe Folkestone instead of the Victoria-Dover service.

 

[Mikey C]

It has been made clear in a number of threads that HS1 connection to Hastings will never happen, regardless of the supposed merits of it.

Leaving aside the costs involved to run Rye/Hastings services onto HS1, one positive is that they do make more use of HS1 than the Medway Town and Maidstone services, which because they turn off at Ebbsfleet onto the classic lines presumably "waste" HS1 slots between Ebbsfleet and Ashford?

Also, trundling along the very slow North Kent Line through Gravesend to Rochester, does feel a waste of those trains. Looking at journey times, London to Whitstable via HS1 is actually 1 minute slower than the "classic" service from Victoria, while to Rochester the Victoria service is only 1 minute slower than the HS1 service.

By contrast for places like Dover or Canterbury, which use more of HS1, the high speed services have been transformational. Indeed if trains and HS1 slots and platforms were at a premium, would it be sensible to concentrate all the 395s on the services via Ashford?

 

[brad465]

I do wonder if the HS Faversham terminators could extend to Dover and maybe Folkestone instead of the Victoria-Dover service.

Or keep the Victoria service and add the HS1 service on top to give 2tph Faversham-Dover, with the HS service calling only at Canterbury East. It would be an interesting rounder if it then carried onto London via Ashford (obviously not the first HS1 rounder though).

 

[HSTEd]

What's the maximum capacity HS1 can support? 18 TPH?

If we ignore platform limitations at St Pancras, assuming an ETCS Level 2 resignalling using short block sections, probably north of 24 trains per hour on the 230km/h section.
This would require a nearly consistent stopping pattern (use all platforms at Stratford for domestic services) with only international trains skipping stations.

The old Bombardier study done for HS2 capacity assessment (that I have a copy of) would suggest 230km/h would have a minimum technical headway of ~80 seconds, albeit with very short 400m block sections.

400m block sections for tens of kilometres might get a bit expensive using trackside train detection, but probably not that expensive compared to the cost of more tracks. A 'hybrid' solution using a mix of trackside and trainside detection like that being used on some ETCS lines in India could probably do that comparatively eaisly.

You would get significantly fewer paths on the southern section because of the higher speed.

Again, if you can somehow overcome platform limits at St Pancras, I suspect the real limit after an ETCS resignalling would be the position of the intervention shafts. AIUI there is a fire safety assumption of only one train per direction between adjacent intervention/evacuation shafts.

 

[izvor]

Also, trundling along the very slow North Kent Line through Gravesend to Rochester, does feel a waste of those trains. Looking at journey times, London to Whitstable via HS1 is actually 1 minute slower than the "classic" service from Victoria, while to Rochester the Victoria service is only 1 minute slower than the HS1 service.

I've pondered this. Also London to Thanet via either HS1 route (Ashford/Strood) has similar journey times.

By contrast for places like Dover or Canterbury, which use more of HS1, the high speed services have been transformational. Indeed if trains and HS1 slots and platforms were at a premium, would it be sensible to concentrate all the 395s on the services via Ashford?

Quite possibly yes, but then do you abandon the Medway Towns too? (Good luck to anyone trying to sell this!) And if not, where do you terminate? If not Gillingham it would have to be Faversham, where around 50% terminate now anyway. Probably save you a couple of units.

In my observation, STP to Canterbury West justifies 2tph all day. Given that the Dovers regularly shed/attach 1 unit at Ashford, could this not be achieved, simply and economically, by extending these to CBW? Or even Margate?

HS1 to Hastings was a pet project of their former MP Amber Rudd, which rather quietly disappeared when she did, given the technical issues mentioned upthread.

 

[squingo44]

This would require a nearly consistent stopping pattern (use all platforms at Stratford for domestic services) with only international trains skipping stations.

Would flighting some domestic services that travel express to St Pancras after the international services be a consistent stopping pattern?

If we ignore platform limitations at St Pancras, assuming an ETCS Level 2 resignalling using short block sections, probably north of 24 trains per hour on the 230km/h section.

Sounds like it should be possible to get up to 4 TPH on the busiest routes, then. 4 TPH international, 4 TPH to Canterbury West, 4 TPH to Faversham, and 2 TPH to the rest.

 

[yorksrob]

I would ask whether everyone is so keen to get to KX, or whether you could instead relieve that service by having faster trains to Charing Cross (whilst at the same time getting more people nearer to where they want to be)

 

[Trainlog]

The time I travelled Strood-Paddock Wood, it was relatively well loaded as far as Maidstone then very quiet onto Paddock Wood. Not sure why it justifies every 30 minutes south of Maidstone!

Definitely agree from my experiences using the Medway Valley Line. It's hard to overstate how much of a game-changer the half-hourly service has been since it came in with the December 2022 timetable changes, compared with before, when it was hourly. Missing your connection at Strood and then having a 50min wait for the next Medway Valley Line service wasn't fun .

As you say, the line is well used between Maidstone West and Strood; these days, you will rarely find an empty table and even at rush hour, it can be hard to find a decent airline-style seat. As you rightly pointed out, the Southern section of the line between Maidstone West and Paddock Wood, whilst rather scenic, barely gets any useage.

The main factors are

• Villages along the line are rather small in size and are either higher up on the sides of the valley (East Farleigh, parts of Wateringbury), the station is far out of the intended village (Yalding) or, in the case of Beltring, there isn't really much of a village or anything immediately surrounding the station apart from a farm.
• Rivalry: The number 7 bus serves the heart of East Barming and Farliegh area, and Wateringbury, with a half-hourly service to Tonbridge and Tunbridge Wells, along with Maidstone (however, I find that bus rather slow tbh). As for the Paddock Wood part of the equation, Maidstone East now has a Charing X service of its own, and, with the Maidstone East line now being half-hourly back to Ashford International again, timing the marshlink connection right provides a decent route down to Hastings. So apart from needing a train out to Redhill or Gatwick, the need to go South on the Medway Valley Line has dwindled in recent years.
• Justifying a reason to use it: Paddock Wood is a nice small town; however, I will admit that whilst there are certainly a fair few good shops to visit, it's rather small and you will at most be spending an hour there.

To answer your question, I believe the half-hourly service is mainly because it just makes more sense to keep going to Paddock Wood and fulfil an improvement over the previous hourly service that existed previously. Paddock Wood is a clear terminus with a bay platform for the line, versus needing to turn more trains around at Maidstone West than the current peak service Javelins.

Personally, if any new positive changes can be made to the Medway Valley Line, I would like to see a semi-fast on the Southern section where at least 2 stations are cut back to hourly in exchange for a Maidstone West to Tonbridge semi-fast service (and I would definitely nominate Beltring as one of them). So there would be 1tph to Tonbridge (semifast) and 1tph to Paddock Wood (calling all stations).

The other change that could be made is to run more trains later into the night, rather than stopping around 22:00-22:30. Maidstone has a fairly large nighttime economy, so even just 2 more hours of service would benefit the town's economy. I would like more Javelins down to Maidstone West off-peak, but I have more or less accepted that it isn't going to happen.

 

[Mattplans]

Agreed.

I would ask whether everyone is so keen to get to KX, or whether you could instead relieve that service by having faster trains to Charing Cross (whilst at the same time getting more people nearer to where they want to be)

For me HS1 has always landed you on the wrong side of the city than you want to be on. It's great for Eurostar and MML (the natural terminus) but not great for most commuters. How many HS1 passengers get to St Pancras then use the Underground to the East? (Liv St etc) I wouldn't mind 10-20 mins extra on a Southeastern train that took me right to Cannon Street instead.

 

[NCT]

Once again, what problem is this solution supposed to solve?

 

[Stephen42]

Leaving aside the costs involved to run Rye/Hastings services onto HS1, one positive is that they do make more use of HS1 than the Medway Town and Maidstone services, which because they turn off at Ebbsfleet onto the classic lines presumably "waste" HS1 slots between Ebbsfleet and Ashford?

Not really. Many trains leaving at Ebbsfleet depart slightly before the international trains such that they clear HS1 in time but if they were to call at Ebbsfleet then Ashford would get in the way of that international train. Most of the time difference is the station calls rather than the lower top speed so even new trains with higher top speed would need to skip stops to use the same path.

Also, trundling along the very slow North Kent Line through Gravesend to Rochester, does feel a waste of those trains. Looking at journey times, London to Whitstable via HS1 is actually 1 minute slower than the "classic" service from Victoria, while to Rochester the Victoria service is only 1 minute slower than the HS1 service.

By contrast for places like Dover or Canterbury, which use more of HS1, the high speed services have been transformational. Indeed if trains and HS1 slots and platforms were at a premium, would it be sensible to concentrate all the 395s on the services via Ashford?

Origin Destination Matrix wise for Stratford International those stations are high up in the rankings, Gravesend (5th), Chatham (7th), Gillingham (8th), Strood (10th), Rochester (11th), Sittingbourne (12th). Margate (6th) takes slightly longer via Gravesend but still quicker if that's the first train available. (For completeness Ashford 4th and Folkestone West 9th are the two stations on the Ashford route only). Coupled with the operational challenges it's hard to see a good case for focusing on Ashford.

 

[MotCO]

Regarding platform capacity at St Pancras, what is the quickest turnaround time that could be achieved? I've seen some trains are 10 minutes, others are 13 minutes, but could these be speeded up to increase capacity? Or does the departure time rely on track availability between Eurostar services, such that turnaround times could not be improved?

One option could be to be able to turn them round instantly, very much like trains arriving at intermediate stations. That would rely on new crews being ready to jump on. Any cleaning duties would have to be completed at destinations, unless you have cleaning staff jumping on at St Pancras, and leaving at Ebbsfleet.