Actual Line Speeds

[Haydn1971]

Anyone out there who has actually done a GPS track of speeds on railways - the line speeds are in publicly available documents, but with such variation on service times, I'm intreged to see the actual variance of speeds on routes.

 

[notadriver]

There are people who time trains professionally. Railperf.org.uk

The public online version of the sectional appendix is not up to date. Only staff have access to the one that is.

 

[The Planner]

Opens up the debate of performance, performance regimes, driving to the timetable and TOCs being unwilling to tighten up running times (or fix those that don't work!). I am not entirely sure what purpose Railperf.org.uk have as we certainly don't use any data they may produce.

 

[notadriver]

It's just a site for rail performance enthusiasts - it's not official in any way.

 

[455driver]

Can we expect the normal "I was on 1A23 and the driver did 400mph between here and there" posts!

 

[LE Greys]

Can we expect the normal "I was on 1A23 and the driver did 400mph between here and there" posts!

Certainly, Railway Magazine once ran an article on timing myths, such as the 120 mph Saint on the Badminton Line, or the 100 mph plus B12s on the Great Eastern.

The highest I've ever clocked was 129, but that was confirmed by John Heaton, who was on the same train (the non-stop Pendolino special between Glasgow and London). In general, I time ECML runs from Peterborough to Stoke Tunnel, and in particular from Helpston to Stoke, in the hope of a 9 minute run (meaning the train has almost certainly reached 125 and maxed out its engines if an HST). Times generally spread between 9 and 10, and the uphill record was 8 mins 59 for an HST. It has improved since Valenta days, when HSTs were often nearer 11 minutes, the extra weight of a 2+9 probably causing this, so MTUs allow a 2+9 to run to 2+8 times. Electras deliver almost precisely 9 minutes every single time, uphill and downhill.

One interesting thing is to plot speed against time rather than distance, and you will see the effect of acceleration on timetables.

Also, please note that I don't use a GPS, just a stopwatch and a clipboard.

 

[notadriver]

Professional ! Excellent. There's an app I use called 'mapmyroute' it takes a reading every second and lays a pin on the map. Thus there is a record for a complete journey battery and memory permitting. Speeds are accurate if averaged over longer distances.

 

[The Planner]

It has improved since Valenta days, when HSTs were often nearer 11 minutes, the extra weight of a 2+9 probably causing this, so MTUs allow a 2+9 to run to 2+8 times. Electras deliver almost precisely 9 minutes every single time, uphill and downhill.

Unless it has changed recently all the East Coast HSTs are timed as 2+9.

 

[notadriver]

LE Greys did you ever time the 180s? They are the fastest accelerating trains in the ECML!

 

[LE Greys]

LE Greys did you ever time the 180s? They are the fastest accelerating trains in the ECML!

GC to Bradford is on my list for the summer, so I'll take the chance then. I'm sure you're right, they keep up with Networkers up Holloway bank.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Unless it has changed recently all the East Coast HSTs are timed as 2+9.

I was thinking of my first experiments with timing 15 years ago. Have they retained 2+9 times since their temporary strengthening by BR when the Western Region had traction motor problems?

 

[flymo]

Brings back memories of me being fascinated with timing HSTs. I did this between Northallerton and York in the late 80s as well as Paddington to Reading and onto Bristol Parkway. The fastest I ever timed using the mileposts was 27.6 seconds for the mile, so around 130mph just south of Thirsk

(assuming the distance between mileposts and my stopwatch finger were accurate )

Happy days..

 

[Colin 2905]

Can we expect the normal "I was on 1A23 and the driver did 400mph between here and there" posts!

I have no idea what the service number was, or even the train type, but whilst on the GC service that we took from Hartlepool to Kings Cross last Wednesday (dep 1252), I downloaded a speedometer app onto my Samsung tablet, so I could see what speed we were doing. I only checked it a few times, but I recall that when we were about 20 minutes south of York, we were doing around 205km/h, peaking at 209km/h.

 

[A-driver]

I have no idea what the service number was, or even the train type, but whilst on the GC service that we took from Hartlepool to Kings Cross last Wednesday (dep 1252), I downloaded a speedometer app onto my Samsung tablet, so I could see what speed we were doing. I only checked it a few times, but I recall that when we were about 20 minutes south of York, we were doing around 205km/h, peaking at 209km/h.

Considering train speedos are only calibrated to within 3mph and you have to allow for some misreading/we don't drive with our eyes fixed on the speedo and gps apps downloaded onto phones arnt 100% accurate that is likely. 209kmh is about 129mph?

 

[notadriver]

Were you on a class 180? I think they have a reflective coating on the windows which makes GPS readings inaccurate. Voyagers and Pendolinos have this coating as well.

 

[asylumxl]

While the accuracy of mobile phone GPS is not brilliant, assuming you have a decent number of sattelites and signal strength you can manage between 5 and 10 metre accuracy. On a train moving at speed that will give a reasonably reliable reading. Consistency is the key.

Most people who are serious about such a thing will process the data anyway and use filters such as Gaussian filters and Kalman filters (most satnavs use this to smooth data).

Besides that, as more phones have electronic compasses and accelerometers nowadays, more developers are starting to use all of them together to correct the results and increase accuracy.

 

[ainsworth74]

Were you on a class 180?

180s are fine for signal it's just 220/221/222s that are the problem (though it might have been fixed on the 222s).

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I've certainly been able to get a signal on the 222s, but only in the vestibules. Not tried a 220 / 221 for a signal yet.

On the 390s I can get a signal in the saloon areas.

 

[Bevan Price]

Recent Garmin GPS units can get signals in 185, 350, 390 classes. However, signal can get erratic in cuttings, etc., and recorded speed may appear to fluctuate violently for a few seconds. So, if your GPS briefly indicates 140 mph or more in a Pendolino, it is normally best not to believe it.

Signal in Voyager derivatives is weak or non-existent except in vestibules, as noted by Peter Mugridge. Older GPS units get little or no signal in 185, 350 or 390 classes.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Ah yes, corrupt GPS signals can be fun - like getting an indication of 419mph on a class 455 "Slug" once...