Acceptance Inconsistencies

[sot]

A small query of fellow members:

Has anyone had issues of TOC staff or even public facing TOC websites stating ticket acceptance has ended, whilst National Rail Enquiries status and disruption describes acceptance to still be ongoing?

Not fully hypothetical, I have a current disagreement with a certain TOC on this matter.

 

[trainophile]

I’d be interested to know what happens if you boarded a different train from your booked one/operator during ticket acceptance, and were still on it when the acceptance ended!

 

[redreni]

I’d be interested to know what happens if you boarded a different train from your booked one/operator during ticket acceptance, and were still on it when the acceptance ended!

Prison, I imagine!

 

[mikeg]

I’d be interested to know what happens if you boarded a different train from your booked one/operator during ticket acceptance, and were still on it when the acceptance ended!

Furthermore if there was say disruption on the ECML North of Newcastle they sometimes allow you to travel via Carlisle to Edinburgh/Glasgow. What happens if you’re on the train to Carlisle, effectively committed and acceptance ends with Avanti and TPE? I believe we had a dispute involving just such a case.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Furthermore if there was say disruption on the ECML North of Newcastle they sometimes allow you to travel via Carlisle to Edinburgh/Glasgow. What happens if you’re on the train to Carlisle, effectively committed and acceptance ends with Avanti and TPE? I believe we had a dispute involving just such a case.

Another problem is where people have driven to a different station from usual to go to their destination - really acceptance for them needs to continue until they arrive back to their car, which could be a month if they are away on a period return ticket.

 

[styles]

I have never had it happen to me, but it is why I take screenshots of any disruption, delays, ticket acceptance, RTT real time arrivals etc. I know one day I'll put in a delay repay or compensation claim and some sort of excuse will pop up that I'll have to evidence is wrong.

 

[sot]

My most recent issue involves NRE showing the acceptance until at least 7:30pm, whereas the TOC in question say the acceptance finished at 2pm.

They say their internal (and inaccessible to the public) systems overrule the public facing info of the NRE site.

I have reached deadlock with this one and am pushing higher to get some decent resolution other than "we decide if it's finished and if NRE don't update that's not our problem".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==

Prison, I imagine!

I read that in your voice and it amused me more than it should have.

 

[Deerfold]

A small query of fellow members:

Has anyone had issues of TOC staff or even public facing TOC websites stating ticket acceptance has ended, whilst National Rail Enquiries status and disruption describes acceptance to still be ongoing?

Not fully hypothetical, I have a current disagreement with a certain TOC on this matter.

Yes.

During recent severe disruption at Kings Cross we were advised to travel via St Pancras. We caught the first Sheffield train and used our First Class ticket standing next to the loo.

Their Twitter said tickets were valid on EMR and Cross Country. I tweeted to ask if we could travel on Northern to Leeds instead of just 1 crowded service an hour and was told ticket acceptance had finished. Fortunately the Northern guard was rather more reasonable.

 

[sot]

I made my journey using the original services rather than the ones that I should have been accepted on.

I requested at the end of that leg that I should be provided with some proof either way at the intermediate station and was flat out refused.

Step several weeks to a month later the TOC in question asks me if I have any proof of this such as from staff. Facepalm ensued as part of my complaint was that I wasn't given something on railway stationery to confirm or deny the acceptance.

Additionally I was compensated on a DR that I claimed under due to not being allowed to board using the acceptance

 

[Frontera2]

Another problem is where people have driven to a different station from usual to go to their destination - really acceptance for them needs to continue until they arrive back to their car, which could be a month if they are away on a period return ticket.

It does, there’s new internal guidance around this.

 

[Watershed]

It does, there’s new ipaternal guidance around this.

Why is this guidance not made public?

The industry's attitude of secrecy around ticket acceptance needs to disappear. It's utterly contemptuous of passengers.

 

[sot]

It does, there’s new ipaternal guidance around this.

Is this at a particular TOC or at a NR level?

 

[trei2k]

I think we should follow the approach in Germany, any disruption and the ticket essentially becomes a flexible, any route ticket to get to the destination.

Why is this guidance not made public?

The industry's attitude of secrecy around ticket acceptance needs to disappear. It's utterly contemptuous of passengers.

I second this point. So many individuals I know have been burned by a poor experience in the past, so they just drive.

 

[Frontera2]

Why is this guidance not made public?

The industry's attitude of secrecy around ticket acceptance needs to disappear. It's utterly contemptuous of passengers.

Sorry, I should have been clearer, there is internal guidance around good practice, which is all about how and when it's communicated to passengers - not that the advice itself is internal.

 

[sot]

Sorry, I should have been clearer, there is internal guidance around good practice, which is all about how and when it's communicated to passengers - not that the advice itself is internal.

I don't quite understand the difference you are trying to convey here?

The communication of it to the pax is what my complaint is about. Not so much the acceptance advice itself, whatever they agree or don't agree is fine by me, my issue is its dissemination to the pax at hand.

Moreover, their bellyaching around it not being their problem. I expect when I buy a ticket under NRCoT, that is on RSP stock with the NR logo on it and I am not on LU services that a website run by NR is the final place to look about information that could apply to any and all TOCs. I shouldn't need to peruse and pursue 3 different TOC websites to find different wordings. In my opinion if it is on NRE then it is dependable information and it should be accepted as such until it's removal from this public facing site.

I should not be expected to (as a public pax) to have to have the question asked to a TOC control.

That being said, I have a question. The TOC in question states the acceptance has to be approved by the DfT. I doubt this personally but does anyone in these roles have some form of knowledge of the process? I always considered it to be a mutual agreement between the highest control staff of each TOC.

 

[WAB]

That being said, I have a question. The TOC in question states the acceptance has to be approved by the DfT. I doubt this personally but does anyone in these roles have some form of knowledge of the process? I always considered it to be a mutual agreement between the highest control staff of each TOC.

The TOC are talking nonsense. Short-notice acceptance is agreed by phone Control-to-Control. This will generally be the information or customer support controllers but can be the lead controller on duty too. The respective controls then send the message out to frontline staff and also to NRE. NRE then update their website accordingly. The TOCs update their websites accordingly, too. Often, the arrangement will be time-limited from the start, but can also be UFN. I've always been a little nebulous on how it's formally ended, but most staff are pragmatic.

Sometimes, there are commonplace acceptance arrangements where it's not formally sought as it's a common occurrence, but this is very much a local arrangement.

As far as most would be concerned, if it's on the TOC website or NR, that's that.

 

[Starmill]

The TOC in question states the acceptance has to be approved by the DfT.

Is it a Northern, LNER, TransPennine Express or Southeastern? Or EMR? They're probably confused if so...

 

[sot]

Nope WMT and AWC

 

[Geswedey]

When I was responsible for accepting and asking for ticket acceptance as a Manager in Control, I would regularly implement acceptance for a disrupted TOC before they asked for it and then rang them to tell them I had done it or advised them it was already in place when they rung us, this was not really a problem as we were only advertising the fact internally for our own staff. and knowing how much pressure controllers are under during the initial stages of an incident being proactive helped their customers and pre warned our staff. I always tried to keep acceptance in until the end of the day especially for incidents that happened early in the day to allow customers to get home again.

 

[sot]

I am about to prepare a case for the rail ombudsman for it anyway.

Arguably I am not really out of pocket at all at this stage, however I disagree in the strongest terms with AWC's incessant lies to close cases and their general hostile attitude to pax.

 

[Starmill]

Nope WMT and AWC

Bizarre then. No idea.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2025 ==

When I was responsible for accepting and asking for ticket acceptance as a Manager in Control, I would regularly implement acceptance for a disrupted TOC before they asked for it and then rang them to tell them I had done it or advised them it was already in place when they rung us, this was not really a problem as we were only advertising the fact internally for our own staff. and knowing how much pressure controllers are under during the initial stages of an incident being proactive helped their customers and pre warned our staff. I always tried to keep acceptance in until the end of the day especially for incidents that happened early in the day to allow customers to get home again.

This is without doubt an example of best practice. Obviously there will be certain occasions when it's not achievable or when workload is too great but it's still the best thing to aim for.