Beveridges
Established Member
The only difference being that in Northern, carriage cleaners can and do often work their way into Train Driving. So not really like the burger bar to pilot example.
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Abysmal pay
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The only difference being that in Northern, carriage cleaners can and do often work their way into Train Driving. So not really like the burger bar to pilot example.
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Anyone with views on this ?
Jones
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Dear god. What a thing to admit to. :roll:
Don't think anyone has admitted anything.
No one admitted to anything :roll: but the simple fact is that such things do go on in the workplace and some are dead canny at doing exactly what was pointed out. If you knew what you were on about you would know this.
Back on to the subject I can't see this as a permanent position as the unions would quite rightly kick up a fuss about the use of agency to replace permanent staff and not just for cover to ensure the business can still function.
And as no-one really knows here, this could actually be a feed in job which gives the TOC a good view at prospective employees with a view to a permanent job with them after.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
That's a FTE of over £13,000 for someone not needing more than 1 year's experience. Usually a junior level cleaning job offers minimum wage and the hours are outside usual office hours as the cleaner required to work after most people have gone home. Unless it's a central London role I think the TOC are offering the market rate.
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Anyone doing that who gets caught presumably gets instant dismissal for breach of contract and has no chance of getting a good reference from Northern Rail. As most prospective employers require a reference from your current or most recent employer before a job offer is confirmed, doing what you suggest would seriously harm your long term finances as you'd have no job and little prospect of getting one.
Only if it can be proved and isn't it the case that an employees sickness record should not be included in a reference?
PermitToTravel
Established Member
The fact that an employee was dismissed for gross misconduct can be included in a reference.
There's no doubt, as others have suggested, that this sort of thing occurs in a lot of workplaces, and the offenders are often rather less than subtle about it. Apart from potentially costing the employer a lot of money, their colleagues suffer too: perhaps struggling to book annual leave because they've been left short staffed, being pressured or forced into working overtime to cover or just being lumped with a load of extra work to do. Clearly it's different in the case of genuine long-term sickness (which might not be obvious, so be careful befoe jumping to conclusions!), but otherwise it's really not on.
Jones
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I'm quite aware of how thing's like this work, I've dismissed several for exactly this reason. Amazing how people feel it's acceptable to abuse employers.
Fair point, he didn't expressly admit to the practice himself, but did imply that it goes on. The fact he is so open about it is ill advised. I am aware that some of his posts have been controversial to some on here, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Swt dont employ train cleaners, the trains are cleaned under contract by an agency who supply the staff.
plastictaffy
Member
Better money than the night cleaners at Northampton are on..........
I don't follow?
Or perhaps thats the market rate for an entry level non skilled position? You might find it disgraceful but I'm sure there will be many that would jump at the opportunity.
Read back what you said. This is for experienced staff with a driving license, and from somewhere you get this to mean entry level non skilled position.
Just copy and pasting the advert for you:-
Our client, a major rail operator, are seeking an experienced and competent night cleaner to join their teams based in Fratton Traincare Depot. You will be working permanent nights, from 2200 - 0600 and will be working 5 out of 7 shifts per week.
You must have a driving licence, previous cleaning experience, ideally gained in an industrial environment, be prepared to work nights on a permanent basis and be a real team player.
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I didn't think the PSRs were to be honest...
Hell, there are commercial airline pilots that make that as base salary- even less when you take into account that they're only "on the clock" while the engines are running although their duties start hours before.
This "race to the bottom" that privatization and transnational free markets have brought is certainly not limited to any single industry.
This "race to the bottom" that privatization and transnational free markets have brought is certainly not limited to any single industry.
Beveridges
Established Member
Is cleaning on the railway really worse than any other industry?
The cleaners at NH were all offered the chance to be trained up to do Fuelling for around £17 per hour. No one was refused. Only two showed interest! The rest would rather keep their easier job for low pay than drag pipes around the fuel rig all night for good money and get covered in water and red diesel.
Many cleaners have moved onto Train Driving, Shunters/MDDs, Semi Skilled Fitter (and eventually a Fitter) and Conductors. In what other industries do Cleaners have the chance to get a £40k+ job through an internal application ?
The cleaners at NH were all offered the chance to be trained up to do Fuelling for around £17 per hour. No one was refused. Only two showed interest! The rest would rather keep their easier job for low pay than drag pipes around the fuel rig all night for good money and get covered in water and red diesel.
Many cleaners have moved onto Train Driving, Shunters/MDDs, Semi Skilled Fitter (and eventually a Fitter) and Conductors. In what other industries do Cleaners have the chance to get a £40k+ job through an internal application ?
Blimey, that is pretty good!
Nevillehill
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Quattro agency in York are advertising train cleaning jobs for £9.50 ph , more than full time staff.
LOROL are currently advertising for cleaners, just over 18k. Not a lot for London. That includes London Weighting too.
I think the cleaners in the depot doing the heavier stuff are paid a fair bit more. Can't remember how much, but it was good money.
I think the cleaners in the depot doing the heavier stuff are paid a fair bit more. Can't remember how much, but it was good money.
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plastictaffy
Member
Better than the train cleaners at Northampton get. They work for ISS on 6.50 an hour for perma-nights, 8pm-4am.
I hope they also get free transport, as I'm on a train to Cambridge from Liverpool Street and a member of the train presentation team got stuck on the train! Next stop Tottenham Hale for him to go back. Imagine if he ended up with a PF. 
(Yes I know sometimes they do stay on, but this one didn't want to!!)
(Yes I know sometimes they do stay on, but this one didn't want to!!)
plastictaffy
Member
They don't even get reduced transport on the network - none of the outside contractors do. The cleaners are based only at Northampton anyway. However, there is an outside cleaning company that do the stations and stuff, they work for Carlisle. One of their cleaners was given either the option of a job at Watford - paying his own transport every day, for a 4 hour a day contract (Effectively working for free) or being sacked. He left the next day......
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