Abu Hamza

[yorksrob]

Woah! Steady on there. Despite what he's done, we mustn't forget the Geneva Conventions.

Don't get carried away - he never said a Merseyrail Pacer !

 

[kylemore]

I don't know much about this but what is wrong with him facing trial by Jury here in the UK?

 

[yorksrob]

I don't know much about this but what is wrong with him facing trial by Jury here in the UK?

Isn't he accused of setting up some sort of a terrorist training camp in Colorado (or somewhere else in the US) ? In which case, isn't there (alledgedly) a crime committed over there.

 

[185]

Don't get carried away - he never said a Merseyrail Pacer !

No surprise the Arab world hates the west. Look what we sent them.....

http://www.phantasrail.com/Iran/130 2005.10.09 Teheranu.jpg

 

[ainsworth74]

Aaaaand he's gone. Plane has left for the US.

 

[yorksrob]

No surprise the Arab world hates the west. Look what we sent them.....

http://www.phantasrail.com/Iran/130 2005.10.09 Teheranu.jpg

Well - the Persian world !

At least they had bus seats - with Merseyrail seats we might have displaced America as the "Great" Satan !

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

An appearance before a Federal Court in New York now awaits him.

 

[kylemore]

What awaits him is a living death - which if you think he deserves it is fair enough.

But lets not kid ourselves we're sending him into any kind of "Justice" system.

 

[Butts]

What awaits him is a living death - which if you think he deserves it is fair enough.

But lets not kid ourselves we're sending him into any kind of "Justice" system.

Does such a concept exist anywhere in the world in it's purest incarnation ?
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Do travel costs not negate the saving on duty? hock:

200pkts of B&H purchased in UK Duty Paid = £1480+

200ptks of B&H purchased in Luxembourg Duty Paid = £754 approx

Airfare and Hotel £250 - i'll let you do the maths

 

[ainsworth74]

But lets not kid ourselves we're sending him into any kind of "Justice" system.

It's a better justice system than in many parts of the world and better than what he'd face under the Sharia system he wants.

 

[kylemore]

It's a better justice system than in many parts of the world and better than what he'd face under the Sharia system he wants.

As I said if you think he deserves it then it's Justice I suppose.

I'm more worried about the British guy who hacked into the NSA computers when he was a daft young laddie and who the US are hell-bent on making an example of. There is little doubt if they get hold of him that's the last that his mother who is frantically fighting this against the odds will see of him outside of a prison camp.

Or that retired British businessman taken on trumped up charges of supplying "arms" to those not flavour of the month at the CIA.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's a better justice system than in many parts of the world and better than what he'd face under the Sharia system he wants.

I am mindful here of how the 14 year old Christian Pakistani girl with learning difficulties was very recently accused in a district of Pakistan by an Iman of burning leaves from a copy of the Qu'ran....then of the subsequent revelation by one of his followers that it was the Iman himself who had sought and employed fabrication of the evidence, having stated this was a good way to get rid of Christians.

 

[Butts]

As I said if you think he deserves it then it's Justice I suppose.

I'm more worried about the British guy who hacked into the NSA computers when he was a daft young laddie and who the US are hell-bent on making an example of. There is little doubt if they get hold of him that's the last that his mother who is frantically fighting this against the odds will see of him outside of a prison camp.

Or that retired British businessman taken on trumped up charges of supplying "arms" to those not flavour of the month at the CIA.

Not to mention the bilateral extradition process which is heavily weighted in The USA's favour

 

[yorksrob]

As I said if you think he deserves it then it's Justice I suppose.

In Norway if you massacre hundreds of people in cold blood, you get sent to a holiday camp for twenty years. As a country you pays your money you takes your choice I suppose.

 

[Bungle73]

In Norway if you massacre hundreds of people in cold blood, you get sent to a holiday camp for twenty years. As a country you pays your money you takes your choice I suppose.

Funny how their system seems to work though.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Don't get carried away - he never said a Merseyrail Pacer !

I was tempted to say that

 

[ainsworth74]

Funny how their system seems to work though.

Quite, and it's not as if it's twenty years and then he's back on the streets. It's twenty years and then the courts will take another look at his case and if they think he's still a danger to society then it's more jail time.

 

[Butts]

In Norway if you massacre hundreds of people in cold blood, you get sent to a holiday camp for twenty years. As a country you pays your money you takes your choice I suppose.

Which raises the old chestnut is the loss of your liberty the punishment - or do you feel that is not sufficient and inmates should also be punished by the regime in the prison?

 

[yorksrob]

Funny how their system seems to work though.

If by "work", you mean the generation of remorse and a change of attitude within the prisoner (and I suspect that is what such prison regimes intend to produce), then I await with genuine interest to see whether such a regime will work on an inmate such as Brevik. I have to say though, I have my doubts.
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Which raises the old chestnut is the loss of your liberty the punishment - or do you feel that is not sufficient and inmates should also be punished by the regime in the prison?

Indeed. As far as I'm concerned, certainly for the most serious violent crime, mere deprivation of liberty itself isn't sufficient punishment.

 

[Darandio]

If by "work", you mean the generation of remorse and a change of attitude within the prisoner (and I suspect that is what such prison regimes intend to produce), then I await with genuine interest to see whether such a regime will work on an inmate such as Brevik. I have to say though, I have my doubts.

I wouldn't have thought it would apply to Brevik, I don't think there would be any rescue for that guy.

 

[yorksrob]

I wouldn't have thought it would apply to Brevik, I don't think there would be any rescue for that guy.

Indeed. And is it worth expending such a regime on such an individual ?

As I said earlier, "you pays your money you takes your choice".

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Quite, and it's not as if it's twenty years and then he's back on the streets. It's twenty years and then the courts will take another look at his case and if they think he's still a danger to society then it's more jail time.

The magnitude of his crimes and his stated assertion of his right (in his eyes) of what he did was acceptable, should be a point taken into consideration when this time occurs.

Ian Brady and his crimes are a case where a long incarceration still continues to this day

 

[ainsworth74]

The magnitude of his crimes and his stated assertion of his right (in his eyes) of what he did was acceptable, should be a point taken into consideration when this time occurs.

Oh it will be, if they consider him to be even the slightest threat to society (and I'm sure they will) then it's back to jail. The only reason he's not got a straight life sentence is that there is no such thing in the Norwegian justice system and they, quite rightly in my opinion, didn't want to introduce one just for one man.

 

[yorksrob]

Oh it will be, if they consider him to be even the slightest threat to society (and I'm sure they will) then it's back to jail. The only reason he's not got a straight life sentence is that there is no such thing in the Norwegian justice system and they, quite rightly in my opinion, didn't want to introduce one just for one man.

I think people of this sort will always crop up from time to time, albeit thankfully very rarely. From my point of view, I think if the British justice system didn't have provision in law to impose a fitting punishment for this magnitude of crime from the outset (for example, life without parole), I would have to question its credibility.

 

[SS4]

I'd have no problem letting Abu Hamza meet his God sooner than nature intended. Religious extremists are dangerous criminals because they believe what they're doing is right (even though it usually isn't according to said religion) and they'll be rewarded, not punished in the afterlife.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Religious extremists are dangerous criminals because they believe what they're doing is right (even though it usually isn't according to said religion) and they'll be rewarded, not punished in the afterlife

I wonder if they have been doing a recent stocktaking of the "available virgins" in the "reward department" of "Muslim heaven" since the suicide bombers were first used as a method of warfare.

Do you think they will be influenced by the current thinking on departmental cuts and reduce the current benefit level of 70 per applicant to a much reduced figure, in order to keep resources at a sustainable level.

Amazing what topics you can combine if you put your mind to it....

 

[mrscherry]

I'm glad he got extradited it's about bloody time. It sickens me that people like this are allowed to stay in this country because of their 'human rights'. Human rights?! He shouldn't have any! I'm sick of seeing him and other muslim radicals on the front of the newspapers protesting about our country and our rules and nobody bats an eyelid! If you don't like it go back to where you come from!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It would be interesting to see how a Christian would fare in the tribal regions of either North Waziristan or South Waziristan if this person decided to rant against the application of Sharia law.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I don't think you can ever really truly compare the two. We in the West tend to be rather liberal and most governments reflect the fact that in the West religion is not taken as importantly when it comes to laws and justice at such a high level. Of course it's the complete opposite in South Asia, religion dictates everything over there, with no compromise at all.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Human rights?! He shouldn't have any!

Why shouldn't he?