Aberdeen Clayhills - why LNER?

[Norther Monkey]

Just left Aberdeen and noticed that the depot there is operated by LNER. Seems something of an anomaly given that RTT suggests only two of their units visit on a typical weekday. In contrast many more Scotrail units (and the sleeper) make use of it.

How/why did LNER end up operating this depot (presumably since privatisation)?

 

[cf111]

I'm not sure as to why they operate Clayhills, but there are usually four LNER services from Aberdeen on a normal weekday.

0752 - King's Cross (1E11)
0952 - King's Cross (1E15)
1452 - King's Cross (1E25)
1818 - Leeds (1E30)

The corresponding inbound services arrive at:
1302 - Leeds (1W02)
1706 - King's Cross (1W11)
2113 - King's Cross (1W20)
2309 - King's Cross (1W24)

The last two arrivals stable overnight at Clayhills.

 

[Norther Monkey]

I'm not sure as to why they operate Clayhills, but there are usually four LNER services from Aberdeen on a normal weekday.

0752 - King's Cross (1E11)
0952 - King's Cross (1E15)
1452 - King's Cross (1E25)
1818 - Leeds (1E30)

The corresponding inbound services arrive at:
1302 - Leeds (1W02)
1706 - King's Cross (1W11)
2113 - King's Cross (1W20)
2309 - King's Cross (1W24)

The last two arrivals stable overnight at Clayhills.

But of those four only two appear to visit the depot to stable/service overnight.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm guessing that Aberdeen Clayhills was an InterCity depot under Sectorisation towards the end of BR so passed to the InterCity East Coast franchisee and has remained within it ever since.

 

[Norther Monkey]

I'm guessing that Aberdeen Clayhills was an InterCity depot under Sectorisation towards the end of BR so passed to the InterCity East Coast franchisee and has remained within it ever since.

I guess, therefore, that Scotrail pay LNER for fuelling, toilet service etc. for their many units that visit the depot.

Are there any other examples of depots where the operator/owner is the minority user?

 

[ainsworth74]

I guess, therefore, that Scotrail pay LNER for fuelling, toilet service etc. for their many units that visit the depot.

There will be some manner of contractual arrangements yes. Just as LNER/TPE/XC will make arrangements with Northern at Neville Hill (Leeds) or Heaton (Newcastle) when their units pay a visit.

 

[RiverDon]

I'm not sure as to why they operate Clayhills, but there are usually four LNER services from Aberdeen on a normal weekday.

0752 - King's Cross (1E11)
0952 - King's Cross (1E15)
1452 - King's Cross (1E25)
1818 - Leeds (1E30)

The corresponding inbound services arrive at:
1302 - Leeds (1W02)
1706 - King's Cross (1W11)
2113 - King's Cross (1W20)
2309 - King's Cross (1W24)

The last two arrivals stable overnight at Clayhills.

But of those four only two appear to visit the depot to stable/service overnight.

The afternoon ones (13:02 and 17:06 arrivals) do tend to go over to Clayhillls unless they arrive late and have a tight turnround. The depot isn't staffed all the time so sometimes we have to take trains on and off under the signallers authority without the DP. In that case we can only access the sidings and not the fuel/wash/shed. I don't know why it ended up with LNER but apparently Scotrail has been wanting to take it over for years, hasn't happened yet though.

 

[Norther Monkey]

The afternoon ones (13:02 and 17:06 arrivals) do tend to go over to Clayhillls unless they arrive late and have a tight turnround. The depot isn't staffed all the time so sometimes we have to take trains on and off under the signallers authority without the DP. In that case we can only access the sidings and not the fuel/wash/shed. I don't know why it ended up with LNER but apparently Scotrail has been wanting to take it over for years, hasn't happened yet though.

'DP'?

Sounds potentially quite restrictive. Is it ever the case that Scotrail units can't be fuelled, or otherwise serviced (for example when disruption affects booked timings), with the potential to compound problems?

 

[RiverDon]

Sorry 'designated person' - the lad in charge of the depot. Yes that's right we can't fuel etc... unless the depot is staffed, which it isn't always during the day.

 

[Norther Monkey]

Can see why Scotrail would want control of it! I guess LNER aren't liable for any delay or cancellation payments this situation causes.

 

[ainsworth74]

I don't know why it ended up with LNER but apparently Scotrail has been wanting to take it over for years, hasn't happened yet though.

Neville Hill clearly should have been a Northern depot for a few decades but they only finally managed it when EMR stopped maintaining HSTs there so I reckon Scotrail are likely to have a bit longer to wait yet...

I guess LNER aren't liable for any delay or cancellation payments this situation causes.

Well neither is any other operator that causes delays to others out on the mainline. If a Scotrail service breaks down near Dundee and delays my LNER service then I'll be getting my delay compensation from LNER not Scotrail.

That's a matter internal to the industry to resolve in terms of who owes what to whom.

 

[Norther Monkey]

Well neither is any other operator that causes delays to others out on the mainline. If a Scotrail service breaks down near Dundee and delays my LNER service then I'll be getting my delay compensation from LNER not Scotrail.

That's a matter internal to the industry to resolve in terms of who owes what to whom.

That's what I meant. If an LNER train delays my Scotrail then I'll claim from Scotrail but LNER will ultimately pay (AIUI). But if Scotrail incur delays due to being unable to access fuel etc. 24/7 at Aberdeen then I guess it's all on them.

 

[mathstrains19]

That's what I meant. If an LNER train delays my Scotrail then I'll claim from Scotrail but LNER will ultimately pay (AIUI). But if Scotrail incur delays due to being unable to access fuel etc. 24/7 at Aberdeen then I guess it's all on them.

I would presume there would be contractual arrangements for LNER to pay ScotRail money if they are unable to supply fuel at agreed times.

 

[ainsworth74]

I would presume there would be contractual arrangements for LNER to pay ScotRail money if they are unable to supply fuel at agreed times.

Yes my understanding is that the direct costs (i.e. my Delay Repay payment from LNER) aren't passed on between operators. It's all governed by contracts and x delay incurs y compensation between operators.

 

[androdas]

In Newcastle, Heaton is operated by Northern and while they might not be a minority user it also stables trains for LNER Lumo & Transpennine. Tyne Yard is an unusual one as it is a freight depot operated by DB? and stables Grand Central and CrossCountry

 

[Highlander1]

The afternoon ones (13:02 and 17:06 arrivals) do tend to go over to Clayhillls unless they arrive late and have a tight turnround. The depot isn't staffed all the time so sometimes we have to take trains on and off under the signallers authority without the DP. In that case we can only access the sidings and not the fuel/wash/shed. I don't know why it ended up with LNER but apparently Scotrail has been wanting to take it over for years, hasn't happened yet though.

Doesn't sound like it's going to change hands anytime soon. I understand it was looked at but Scotrail didn't want to pay the costs involved.
Scotrail only use it for fuel/wash and sidings. No maintenance takes place there unless it's very minor adhoc repairs with units going to Inverness, Perth or Haymarket instead.

 

[ainsworth74]

Tyne Yard is an unusual one as it is a freight depot operated by DB? and stables Grand Central and CrossCountry

Sort of there's an Arriva TrainCare depot tucked far in the back (don't think you can see it from the mainline), I've been through it on a railtour!

Obviously once upon a time DB owned Arriva but I think that the depot that looks after GC and XC has always been a separate entity to DBs freight business in the yard. I think anyway...

 

[Steve Harris]

I'm guessing that Aberdeen Clayhills was an InterCity depot under Sectorisation towards the end of BR so passed to the InterCity East Coast franchisee and has remained within it ever since.

I think you'll find that is the correct answer (as there used to be more Inter-City services that went to Aberdeen when Clayhills was opened compared to the 4 today), as they primarily dealt with HST's.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Just left Aberdeen and noticed that the depot there is operated by LNER. Seems something of an anomaly given that RTT suggests only two of their units visit on a typical weekday. In contrast many more Scotrail units (and the sleeper) make use of it.

How/why did LNER end up operating this depot (presumably since privatisation)?

It is also LNER’s only maintenance depot as Craigentinny and Bounds Green were passed to Hitachi!

 

[HSTEd]

I think you'll find that is the correct answer (as there used to be more Inter-City services that went to Aberdeen when Clayhills was opened compared to the 4 today), as they primarily dealt with HST's.

The sleeper was run by InterCity under sectorisation too, wasn't it?

And that probably requires a lot more service work than simple multiple units