Abellio Greater Anglia - First Class

[Bletchleyite]

Of course it is when you pay such outrageously high fares for your journey!

The thing that to me would be an issue would be if all First Class seats were taken by passengers without First Class tickets. However this is difficult to establish.

Beyond that, a First Class ticket does not guarantee a seat any more than a Standard one does - it's not completely out of the question that it might simply provide more convivial standing accommodation.

Neil

 

[jon0844]

379s can be used on stopping trains to Stratford (especially Sundays), so I would say the AGA person writing that can be ignored. And they do have first class in operation on those too.

 

[MP33]

On the rare occasions I travel on a Sunday I have noticed due to the different stopping patterns First Class is full of interlopers.

Some of them are annoying, but to ask for a refund is a bit much. I would suggest that Greater Anglia declassifies all First Class except Intercity on a Sunday as it is rare that a genuine First Class passenger turns up. Mention it in the timetable but no where else, to keep out most of the great unwashed. Season tickets prices to be lowered to take account of the reduced availability.

In peak hours it is different if you choose your set of carriages as most people are unable to walk along a platform more than 50 yards from an entrance. There are annoying people with First Class tickets, they are called Network Rail senior managers.

Anyone who expects a comfortable journey in the vicinity of a football match is asking for trouble

 

[Deerfold]

Anyone who expects a comfortable journey in the vicinity of a football match is asking for trouble

Unfortunately, those of us who don't follow the football don't know when/where that will be.

 

[Flamingo]

The down-side of public transport is that one cannot regulate who else is going to be on the train - you need to travel in a taxi to do that.

Not liking the other people on the train is a subjective thing, and is certainly nothing that justifies a refund - the contract is to get one from A to B within a certain timescale, and provide a seat in a certain class of accomidation if a seat was reserved.

Complaining because others who chose to travel may not be one's prefered type of travel companion is frivolous, doubly so if the journey was a short one.

If their behaviour was such that it constituted a breach of railway bylaws or of the peace, the correct chanel to complain to is BTP. If it was not, then the options were sit there, or move. The TOC is not at fault if one's sensibilities were offended, any more than the TOC would have been at fault if passengers had been using their mobile phones or smoking.

 

[jon0844]

Unfortunately, those of us who don't follow the football don't know when/where that will be.

It's always worth checking if you're on a line that will be packed on football days. Arsenal on the ECML, Spurs on the WAML etc (and the fact that some fans will travel on the other lines).

I've forgotten before and it can be very snug when they pile on (or you might miss a train if they're already on it). However usually football fans are okay. Loud but harmless. Often lots of young kids and females amongst the majority of males and they will show respect for others (assuming you're not chanting for another team or winding them up). But you can safely say they'll fill first class and not worry about a ticket check!

To be honest, TOCs should declassify services around football matches in addition to running extra trains/coaches.

 

[Flamingo]

To be honest, TOCs should declassify services around football matches in addition to running extra trains/coaches.

I don't agree with that at all!
Why should football-fans get free upgrades when, for example, commuters on equally busy trains don't? I can assure you that only on very rare occasions do I declassify First Class, and football fans can be moved out (or off the train). It takes a bit of effort to move them, as the sense of entitlement can be very strong in some of them, but I consider the people who have paid for First Class deserve me at least making an effort, not copping out at the first sign of trouble.

 

[PermitToTravel]

I don't agree with that at all!
Why should football-fans get free upgrades when, for example, commuters on equally busy trains don't? I can assure you that only on very rare occasions do I declassify First Class, and football fans can be moved out (or off the train). It takes a bit of effort to move them, as the sense of entitlement can be very strong in some of them, but I consider the people who have paid for First Class deserve me at least making an effort, not copping out at the first sign of trouble.

I thought jonmorris0844 was saying that as football fans will self-upgrade anyway, it would be fair to formally agree that first class accommodation was not provided and compensate passengers accordingly?


I've a different suggestion - add a "football fan class", in some shipping containers conveyed at the back of the train. You could even have "football fan first" where you're guaranteed a bay of hay to sit on rather than having to join the scrum for one

 

[jon0844]

For one, I'm referring to DOO stock and secondly, services around scheduled matches would simply not have first class in operation in the first place.

When FCC put on extra trains (I assume GTR still does) they used 313s mostly but if any other stock was used, I assume those didn't have first class.

 

[Deerfold]

It's always worth checking if you're on a line that will be packed on football days. Arsenal on the ECML, Spurs on the WAML etc (and the fact that some fans will travel on the other lines).

Not sure just how many places I'd have to check to find them all. Last time I was caught out was when I went to catch the normally quiet Brighouse - Huddersfield service.

I've forgotten before and it can be very snug when they pile on (or you might miss a train if they're already on it). However usually football fans are okay. Loud but harmless. Often lots of young kids and females amongst the majority of males and they will show respect for others (assuming you're not chanting for another team or winding them up). But you can safely say they'll fill first class and not worry about a ticket check!

Sadly I've not had similar experiences. On the last occasion I spoke of I was travelling with my two young nephews. Despite being amongst the first arriving at the station we were last on the train (and only just squeezed on) having been shoved out of the way by an large number of Huddersfield fans. There was no ticket check due to the service becoming crush-loaded at that point.

I also recall a very unpleasant FCC train where a fight broke out - between a large number Arsenal fans. My wife and I got off and boarded a later train - didn't see any staff at any point.

To be honest, TOCs should declassify services around football matches in addition to running extra trains/coaches.

Extra trains would be good but the usual question of where to get them from unfortunately remains. Similarly extra staff (or where trains are like FCC's, any staff at all) would be good.

 

[jon0844]

I can't speak for the entire UK, but on the ECML (in GTR land) you'd generally look out for Arsenal fans, given the locality of the Emirates stadium.. and for Tottenham, Spurs fans. Obviously there are other fans going to other stadiums, and for longer distances you have the Intercity trains that could be packed out, with people more likely to drink (longer travel times) etc.

It's quite a good idea to avoid 2 hours before kick off and at least 2 hours after the game, adding on the usual stoppage time that Arsenal gets (so let's say 3 hours).

At Finsbury Park, it's just a case of shovelling people onto the train and moving it on. There are staff, but not enough if there are problems. Usual issue is just that people hold the doors open, or that the train is too full to close the doors, but - touch wood - never seen any fighting.

Problems have always been late at night, and when it's quieter as there's both room to fight and also less people to intervene (although that usually happens, or at least other passengers try and calm things down).

Once at night a fight broke out that ended up with a plain clothed officer on the train stepping in, being assaulted and the police coming en masse - complete with dogs. Not football related either.

 

[Iskra]

While I agree the wording isn't entirely appropriate, it is fair that they ask for details (a photo/scan of the ticket would be a fair request), as evidence.

If they really are denying passengers the right to use these trains for intermediate stations, or claiming the trains are not intended for their use, then I believe contacting the DfT and London Travelwatch would resolve that matter.

I suspect it's just an errant off-the-cuff remark by a very junior member of inexperienced customer service staff and not of any relevance, though, so can safely be ignored.

It sounds like the customer service person, is simply copying and pasting generic approved phrases from a master document. Hence, why much of it is not relevant, lacks personality/any sense of dealing with a human being and doesn't suit the actual context of the conversation.

 

[Class377]

Why do I get the impression that the OP decided to go on a short first class journey near a football game at the time there would be football fans just so he could complain?

(There's not much of a logical reason to use first class for such a short hop at that time on a weekend!)

 

[Deerfold]

Why do I get the impression that the OP decided to go on a short first class journey near a football game at the time there would be football fans just so he could complain?

(There's not much of a logical reason to use first class for such a short hop at that time on a weekend!)

My understanding is he'd treated himself to a First Class One Day Travelcard and likes catching trains. It doesn't surprise me that he'd try out as many company's offerings as possible. This perhaps makes him a non-typical passenger but I'm not sure we need to be so cynical.

 

[Flamingo]

It's the OP's previous history of whinging at every possible opportunity that causes the cynicism...

 

[Starmill]

Why do I get the impression that the OP decided to go on a short first class journey near a football game at the time there would be football fans just so he could complain?

(There's not much of a logical reason to use first class for such a short hop at that time on a weekend!)

One simply cannot live free of the presumption of ill-conceived plans or nefarious intentions on this forum can they, as your and other posts show. I do not see why I'm required to justify this - but these were not the only journeys I made. Furthermore I didn't see anyone wearing anything football related, and the station was empty as were all the other trains I used or saw, save for this one where loads of people got off at Northumberland Park. I didn't even know it was a local station to a football ground.

This perhaps makes him a non-typical passenger but I'm not sure we need to be so cynical.

My thanks.

 

[306024]

Not sure just how many places I'd have to check to find them all. Last time I was caught out was when I went to catch the normally quiet Brighouse - Huddersfield service

Well I'm a keen football follower but once got caught out expecting a quiet journey from Kyle of Lochalsh to Dingwall, except Ross County were at home

My understanding is he'd treated himself to a First Class One Day Travelcard and likes catching trains. It doesn't surprise me that he'd try out as many company's offerings as possible. This perhaps makes him a non-typical passenger but I'm not sure we need to be so cynical.

That would explain the first class bit for such a short journey, where no one normally buys a first class ticket. Still not convinced we have the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but as this forum isn't a court of law (yet) who cares.

Next time stick to the Victoria Line, no first class there.

 

[Starmill]

That would explain the first class bit for such a short journey, where no one normally buys a first class ticket. Still not convinced we have the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but as this forum isn't a court of law (yet) who cares.

Next time stick to the Victoria Line, no first class there.

Well as you cared enough to write that out it must mean something. If I can't start a thread because of the instant suspicion and cynicism it defeats the point of the forum. Also gotta wonder how this thread would have gone with exactly the same text and a different OP. Also nice to see some of the bile that gets dragged in too by people who clearly struggle with keeping their emotions in check online. I might sometimes get worked up about issues but I've generally managed to resist the temptation to post passionate hatred of individuals with ease.

I think there's nothing further to say on this.

 

[306024]

Well despite there being nothing further to say, if it helps I can assure you there is nothing personal in any of my posts and that most of them are tongue in cheek. But as a colleague was being discredited then in the interest of discussion I'm certainly free to ask a few questions if something doesn't quite make sense. Still enough is enough and let's try to find a more light hearted thread.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I think there's nothing further to say on this.

That puts a nice symmetry onto the thread!

It began with a whinge about other people and ends witrh a whinge about other people. In the middle were some facts and truths, and right in the middle was a whinge about you which was removed. Perfect symmetry.

Let's move on - and treat our public transport as just that - for the public (whoever we are) - to be transported (to whatever we're doing).

 

[Clip]

Well as you cared enough to write that out it must mean something. If I can't start a thread because of the instant suspicion and cynicism it defeats the point of the forum. Also gotta wonder how this thread would have gone with exactly the same text and a different OP. Also nice to see some of the bile that gets dragged in too by people who clearly struggle with keeping their emotions in check online. I might sometimes get worked up about issues but I've generally managed to resist the temptation to post passionate hatred of individuals with ease.

I think there's nothing further to say on this.

One thinks you don't understand irony.

 

[Deerfold]

It's the OP's previous history of whinging at every possible opportunity that causes the cynicism...

Or possibly having had more problems than the average passenger due to problems including obstructive staff refusing to sell him valid tickets and ticket machines not being loaded with (before their withdrawl) fairly popular ticket types?

Yes, I've seen quite a few posts from the OP having had ticketing problems - and been grateful that the staff I come across are generally happy to sell me the ticket I want.

 

[jon0844]

I paid for a first class supplement a couple of times for a ticket that included a journey from Tottenham Hale to Cheshunt. 6 or 7 minutes long!