Abandoned Rail-Sail journey

[Paul Kelly]

I hope this little story is OK in the Fares, Tickets and Routeing forum. Please move if not. Yesterday I had quite an annoying experience and am considering complaining about it, but not really sure who to complain to and/or how much of a leg to stand on I have.

I intended travelling from Oxford to Belfast via rail and sail, routed by Holyhead and Dublin. I thought I would take the Stena sailing at 13:50 rather than the Irish Ferries one 20 minutes later, to give me some extra time in Dublin to have something to eat etc. before the train to Belfast at 19:00. I bought the ticket from Raileasy for £42 + £1.75 extra charges. It is an Economy Single from OXFORD to BELFAST NI, Route "+HLYHD STENA CIV". It didn't work in the barriers at Oxford but I presume they just don't know what an Economy Single is and are programmed to reject anything unusual. I got the 0807 CrossCountry service with the intention of changing in Birmingham New Street and Crewe as recommended by Raileasy.

I have never travelled this route before and looking back on it I really should have got an earlier train than recommended just to be on the safe side. I had an 18 minute connection at Birmingham for the London Midland service to Crewe at 09:36 but the CrossCountry train was delayed coming in by about the same length of time and I just missed it. I made some inquiries about the ferry connection and was fobbed off by some fairly unhelpful London Midland staff and some very unhelpful and quite rude Network Rail staff (looking back on it, it was really nothing to do with the Network Rail customer services people and the London Midland woman was just trying to get rid of me by sending me to them).

The Network Rail people did however direct me to the travel centre run by Virgin Rail staff, where I encountered one girl who did genuinely try to be helpful, but unfortunately gave me some seriously bad advice, which is why the whole thing became such a big deal. She said there was no way I would make the connection at Crewe (to the 10:49 Virgin service to Holyhead) if I got the next train there, which was the 10:01 London Midland service (there is only 7 minutes between them in the timetable, but maybe they always use the same platform or something so there is no chance of ever making the connection? I don't know). The earliest I could get to Holyhead would be 14:14 which would just miss both the 13:50 Stena sailing I was booked on, and also the 14:10 Irish Ferries one. I asked where there any later sailings and she said there was the Irish Ferries Swift at 17:15 (she certainly seemed to be reading it off her computer screen, but I couldn't see what software she was using), although since my ticket was valid for the Stena I might not be able to change it it and might have to wait for the next Stena sailing which was at 02:30 the next morning. At this point I asked could she excess my ticket to be valid on the Irish Ferries sailing (it was just a different route), but she said she couldn't as all the revenue for my ticket would have already gone to Stena. This reminded me of some discussions on here, that the inadequacies of the mechanisms ATOC uses for internal allocation of revenue are of no concern to the average passenger and the validity of their ticket. I would have mentioned this if the discussion had gone on further, but I had to rush off to try and get the 10:01 train. They (her and her colleague, who had become involved in the discussion) said that my best option would be to go to Holyhead and approach Stena there and ask them would they mind changing my ticket to one valid on Irish Ferries.

In Crewe I went to the Virgin information kiosk on the platform and explained my predicament. They were very confident that there would be no problem changing from Stena to Irish Ferries at Holyhead; I could just go to either desk and they would sort it out. I felt quite reassured. The 17:15 Swift would allow me to catch the 20:50 train to Belfast and I would be less than two hours late.

But when I got to Holyhead - there was no evening Swift sailing yesterday! Apparently it had been cancelled for months for a planned staff emergency response training exercise or something. The next sailing that took foot passengers would be the Stena one (valid on my original ticket) at 02:30 the next morning. I asked the man at the Stena desk what did people usually do in these sorts of situations and he said there's not a lot you can do; the passenger terminal would be open all night if that was any help.

After a few minutes' thought I abandoned my journey and I booked a flight from Liverpool to Belfast, bought a rail ticket to Liverpool from Holyhead and just went that way. I showed the woman at the rail ticket desk my ticket to Belfast (although didn't explain I was going to Liverpool to catch a plane), but she said it was no use. The ticket to Liverpool cost £27.80, the Northern ticket desk at Lime Street did me a zero-fare excess to go to Liverpool South Parkway (my first time trying that so I was pleased, especially since the man at the Merseyrail ticket desk refused to sell me it because "it's not giving me a fare"), the bus to the airport terminal was £1.80, the Easyjet flight cost about £80 including checked-in luggage, and the bus from Aldergrove airport into Belfast was £7.

Do I have any chance of claiming any of that back? If I had been told at Birmingham New Street I would have a 12-hour wait at Holyhead I would have gone back to Oxford and made the journey today instead. But that wasn't feasible by the time I'd got to Holyhead. Do the CIV regulations for the train ticket mean anything? A 12-hour delay when I'd left the recommended interchange times and done my best to follow the itnerary I was given when I bought the ticket doesn't seem reasonable.

 

[Dewedin]

I would think you could get your original rail ticket price back owing to the delay. However I don't think you have any right as it were to the cost of your alternative arrangements. My understanding is the railway's obligations to you ended at Holyhead, your final destination on the British network. Though of course XC (for the late running) or Virgin (for the incorrect information) may offer you a goodwill gesture.

 

[Greenback]

I agree. This sad story highlights the dangers involved in rial and sea travel where there are limited services. I would have expected more of an effort to have been made at Birmingham New St tot ry and get you to Crewe or Holyhead in time to make the ferry. But sadly, as with any journey, your ticket only entitles you to travel to your destination, and for any compensation for delay in accordance with the relevant customer charter. I would be amazed if you get any money at all towards your flight, bus and new train ticket.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Thanks for that. I guess I'm not really comfortable with the idea of "seeing what I can get" as a goodwill guesture though, e.g. the Virgin staff member I encountered at Birmingham New Street was actually trying to be helpful and it seems unfair to be penalised for that. But I do like to know what my rights are and then I feel comfortable being a bit more forceful. Anyway I think I have found what I was looking for:

General Terms and Conditions for the International Carriage of Passengers by Rail (GTC-CIV)

13 Liability for failure to keep to the timetable

13.1 In the case of the cancellation of an international train, its delay or the breaking of connections, the carrier will reimburse the reasonable costs of accommodation and/or of a taxi and of notifying persons expecting passengers:
• if passengers are not able to continue their journey the same day or,
• if continuation of the journey cannot reasonably be expected in the circumstances.

13.2 For delays greater than one hour for international day trains and greater than two hours for international night trains or where a train is cancelled, carriers who have concluded the contract of carriage and who have adopted the CER/UIC/CIT Charter on Rail Passenger Services1) will compensate passengers with 20% of the fare paid for the journey on a one-way basis, if
• the fare (including reservation charges and train supplements) is a minimum of 50 euro, and
• the start and the end of the journey are within the European Union, in Norway or Switzerland.
Compensation will be by means of a voucher or in an equivalent form.

13.3 Delay to an international train is defined as the difference between the actual and timetabled arrival time at the station at which the passenger leaves it. To make a claim, passengers must present the original validated ticket together with any reservation within two months of the end of the journey in question to a carrier who participated in the carriage. If the carrier provides for it, a confirmation of delay form may be used instead of a reservation.

13.4 Pass type tickets (InterRail, EuroDomino, Eurail, etc.), car carrying trains and special trains are excluded from the compensation described in point 13.2.

13.5 Instead of claiming compensation according to points 13.1 and 13.2, passengers may
• abandon the rest of their journey and obtain a full refund for that part of the journey which was not made, or
• abandon their journey completely and return to the departure station by the first appropriate train run by a participating carrier and claim a full refund of the fare paid, or
• continue their journey using a train run by a participating carrier to arrive at their destination with the least delay.

13.6 Passenger are not entitled to compensation if the failure to observe the timetable was the result of
• circumstances not connected with the operation of the railway which the carrier, despite having taken the care required in the particular circumstances of the case, could not avoid and the consequences of which he was unable to prevent, or
• restrictions on traffic movement for construction or maintenance work which were publicised in advance, or
• strikes which the passenger knew or should have known about before starting his journey, or
• fault on the part of the passenger, or
• the behaviour of a third party which the carrier, despite having taken the care required in the particular circumstances of the case, could not avoid and the consequences of which he was unable to prevent. The infrastructure manager and other undertakings using the same infrastructure are not considered as third parties.

I take your point about the UK rail part of the journey ending at Holyhead, and I don't think the ferry part is under the CIV regulations, but the connecting train from Dublin to Belfast would be, and the late train into Birmingham meant I'd missed the connection to the last train of the day from Dublin to Belfast, so it's my interpretation that condition 13.1 applies.

Assuming that's true, I wish I'd known (or the man in the Stena Line ticket office at Holyhead had told me, instead of just saying "there's not a lot you can do"), about the second option in condition 13.5. Although it would have been tedious to go back to Oxford, I was not really in a rush to get to Belfast and would have been content to have had a full day's rail travel for free and to try the journey again the next day for no extra cost.

Regarding the compensation arrangements in 13.1, I think my costs to get to Belfast by alternative means were actually quite reasonable and certainly in the same sort of range as reasonable costs of accommodation for the night in Holyhead would have been, especially if meals were included in that.

It would be nice if it was clearer whether condition 13.1 applies though. I think it's clear enough that a connection was broken which meant the journey was not able to be continued the same day. But as this was partly due to the infrequency of the ferry sailings, and they aren't (as I understand it) under the same regulations, it is much less clear-cut.

 

[yorkie]

Sorry to hear this

If you had persevered with the journey I am certain you would have got a 100% refund (probably of both portions if you held a return ticket). As it is, I expect you would get a refund, but not for any additional tickets that you chose to get.

I'd have been tempted to try to get an excess to the Stranraer route, if possible, and then to stay in Eurohostel nr Glasgow Ctl station, then get 0630 (or 0912) to Stranrear and a ferry direct to Belfast. Not sure this would have worked though. Alternatively just stay the night in Holyhead (if there is anywhere; if not somewhere like Bangor?) and then get a ferry the next morning.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Thanks for the hints. I think I'd be content if I was able to get the £42 for the original Oxford - Belfast ticket back. I'm not sure who I should write to to complain though. Cross Country? I had a look at their delay repay form but it implies the delay on their train has to be over an hour to claim 100% of the cost back, whereas it was only 15-20 minutes and it was the knock-on effect of the missed connections that led to the 12-hour delay at Holyhead. I think I will write/e-mail and ask them before I send off any form.

 

[Greenback]

Thanks for that. I guess I'm not really comfortable with the idea of "seeing what I can get" as a goodwill guesture though, e.g. the Virgin staff member I encountered at Birmingham New Street was actually trying to be helpful and it seems unfair to be penalised for that. But I do like to know what my rights are and then I feel comfortable being a bit more forceful. Anyway I think I have found what I was looking for:

General Terms and Conditions for the International Carriage of Passengers by Rail (GTC-CIV)



I take your point about the UK rail part of the journey ending at Holyhead, and I don't think the ferry part is under the CIV regulations, but the connecting train from Dublin to Belfast would be, and the late train into Birmingham meant I'd missed the connection to the last train of the day from Dublin to Belfast, so it's my interpretation that condition 13.1 applies.

Assuming that's true, I wish I'd known (or the man in the Stena Line ticket office at Holyhead had told me, instead of just saying "there's not a lot you can do"), about the second option in condition 13.5. Although it would have been tedious to go back to Oxford, I was not really in a rush to get to Belfast and would have been content to have had a full day's rail travel for free and to try the journey again the next day for no extra cost.

Regarding the compensation arrangements in 13.1, I think my costs to get to Belfast by alternative means were actually quite reasonable and certainly in the same sort of range as reasonable costs of accommodation for the night in Holyhead would have been, especially if meals were included in that.

It would be nice if it was clearer whether condition 13.1 applies though. I think it's clear enough that a connection was broken which meant the journey was not able to be continued the same day. But as this was partly due to the infrequency of the ferry sailings, and they aren't (as I understand it) under the same regulations, it is much less clear-cut.

I think you are right to assume that the CIV regulations don't apply to the ferry section of the journey, but I could be wrong on that.

13.1, if it does apply in this instance, does not allow you to claim the costs of an alternative means of travel. It's not an either or scenario, although there is a good argument that what works out best for the passenger ought to be considered! It may be clearer to imagine a rial only journey, where a connecting train from Dingwall was delayed causing you to miss your conenction at Inverness. The options there would be tow ait for the next train, claiming appropriate compenstation for delay, having a taxi arrange dto catch up witht he train (if possible) somewhere else, or in the case of a last train, overnight accommodation and continuation of the journey the following day. You would not be offered a replacement flight or a seat on a coach, as an alternative, regardless of the actual cost!