Abandoned journey (due to bus replacement would have missed connection)

[chorleyjeff]

Help please before I tackle TPE.
I have advance tickets for a trip today to Edinburgh from Chorley.
I got to Chorley station at 9.10am to get the 9.22 to Preston to connect with the 9.54 to Edinburgh only to find that there were no trains running from Chorley. Apparently an obstruction to the line between Bolton and Manchester - why not run trains from Bolton to Preston?
Anyhow the replacement bus was not due into Preston until 10.08. Hence no possibility of getting my seat on the 9.54 and so walked back home. The 9.54 was the latest train to meet my travel needs and in any case my reservation could only be altered by paying an excess.
Question is what is the best way to get my money back and are there any pitfalls to avoid. I do not want to get into needless wrangles about the repayment.
Any advice gratefully received.
Jeff

PS I should have mentioned that I have return tickets for the return journey today that are not useable as a consequence of not getting to Edinburgh.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For future reference, if the railway prevents you reaching your booked connection, as it did in this case, you may travel on a later train of the same TOC without charge.

 

[OwlMan]

Return the tickets to where you purchased them from for a refund.

NRCOT
30. Your right to a refund if your train is disrupted and you choose not to travel
30.1 If the train you intended to use is cancelled, delayed, or your reservation will not be honoured, and you decide not to travel, you may return the unused Ticket to the original retailer or Train Company from whom it was purchased, where you will be given a full refund with no administration fee being charged.
This Condition applies to all Tickets, including Tickets (such as advance
Tickets) that are otherwise non-refundable, and also applies if you have
begun your journey but are unable to complete it due to delay or
cancellations and return to your point of origin.
30.2 When applying for a refund under this Condition you will need to state the date, time and station where you would otherwise have started your journey from.
30.3 Your refund application will be processed without undue delay and any
refund due will be paid within 14 days of your claim being agreed by the
Train Company. Our target is to process all claims within one month of
receipt.

 

[chorleyjeff]

Return the tickets to where you purchased them from for a refund.

Many thanks for our advice which I really should have been able to find. I have mailed TPE and if no reply tomorrow will phone them. I hope this is not he start of wrangling.
Jeff

 

[Merseysider]

TPE's customer service is one of the few which (imo) actually cares about their customers and goes the extra mile, but they can be a little slow! I haven't done it personally but ISTR there was an option to apply for a refund directly from your online account, by bringing up your past bookings

 

[chorleyjeff]

For future reference, if the railway prevents you reaching your booked connection, as it did in this case, you may travel on a later train of the same TOC without charge.

I appreciate that I would eventually have got there. But experience of a diversion via Barrow on the same trip some years ago told me it would not be possible to get done what I wanted to do. I did not know whether my return could be put back to compensate for a delay. Also I had no idea what time the next Edinburgh train would be and there was no one at the station who could answer anything other than to say there was a replacement bus.
I suppose the trains to Preston diverted via Wigan could have stopped at Euxton only a couple of miles from Chorley and the bus passengers taken there. Or even run a shuttle service from Bolton or Lostock to Preston.
Jeff

 

[chorleyjeff]

TPE's customer service is one of the few which (imo) actually cares about their customers and goes the extra mile, but they can be a little slow! I haven't done it personally but ISTR there was an option to apply for a refund directly from your online account, by bringing up your past bookings

Aha. I didn't know anything about that. I'll check it out.
The only time I have contacted TPE customer services was to ask them to pass on my thanks to a guard for especially good customer service. They replied to that email immediately.
Jeff

 

[yorkie]

Yes, when delays and/or cancellations result in your planned journey no longer being possible, you may either choose to travel anyway and claim delay compensation as appropriate from the relevant train operator, or - as in this case - you may abandon your journey and request a refund from the ticket issuer. (for the avoidance of doubt, there is no admin fee charged for this!)

 

[Merseysider]

I did not know whether my return could be put back to compensate for a delay.

Unlikely. I've tried and failed; asking VTEC at Newcastle, ringing TPE, and asking several tocs on Twitter. It's a bit unfair imo

 

[Silver Cobra]

I recently had to apply for a refund on an abandoned journey, from Glasgow Queen Street to Oban. Due to delays as a result of a signalling failure, it was announced as we got to Helensburgh Upper that the service would be terminated at Crianlarich, with replacement buses onward to Oban. While services did return to normal later in the day, as Oban only has a few services to/from Glasgow each day, I would only have had a very restricted amount of time in Oban or would have had to postpone my intended return to Glasgow for nearly 4 hours (returning at around 9:20pm instead of 5:40pm). Neither option was appealing to me, so abandoning at Helensburgh Upper and returning to Glasgow was the best course of action IMO.

I bought the ticket for the journey through GWR, who allow you to use your online account to request refunds. I sent the tickets off with the completed form from the website on Sunday 6th August, and they processed and issued the refund in full in just over a week. As TPE is a First company like GWR, I imagine they should be pretty swift processing your refund as well.

 

[gray1404]

You are entitled to a full refund in this case and no admin fee is payable. You need to send the tickets back the retailer you got the ticket from. In this cause you need to go online and log onto your TPE account and look at your past bookings and select a refund. Be sure to give the correct reason for refund. Print out the form when prompted and post the tickets back to them.

 

[bb21]

TPE's customer service is one of the few which (imo) actually cares about their customers and goes the extra mile, but they can be a little slow!

Good customer service in this industry tend to be a little slow, as us knowledgeable folks tend to be in great demand in many ways, so our case load can often pile up. Not to mention that doing a fairly comprehensive response takes time.

 

[chorleyjeff]

You are entitled to a full refund in this case and no admin fee is payable. You need to send the tickets back the retailer you got the ticket from. In this cause you need to go online and log onto your TPE account and look at your past bookings and select a refund. Be sure to give the correct reason for refund. Print out the form when prompted and post the tickets back to them.

Thanks for advice. I tried the online chat service but that was not helpful so I phoned customer service and the woman I spoke to was clear and helpful with her info. Which was to send a copy of the tickets and reasons for claim to an address she gave me. Have sent copies plus copy of my account showing details of the tickets. I was a bit surprised to be asked to send a copy of the tickets but she said it was in case of lost post.
It seems my fears of wrangling for a refund were wrong so now just waiting for refund of costs.
Next to York I think - via Burnley to avoid the Bolton/Manchester hassle!

 

[chorleyjeff]

Good customer service in this industry tend to be a little slow, as us knowledgeable folks tend to be in great demand in many ways, so our case load can often pile up. Not to mention that doing a fairly comprehensive response takes time.

Maybe you are the lady with a Merseyside accent From TPE customer services I spoke to yesterday. If so thanks for helping an old geezer - me !
Jeff

 

[AlterEgo]

Maybe you are the lady with a Merseyside accent From TPE customer services I spoke to yesterday.

I don't think he is...

 

[yorkie]

Maybe you are the lady with a Merseyside accent From TPE customer services I spoke to yesterday. If so thanks for helping an old geezer - me !
Jeff

He works for a different company and is not a scouser

 

[chorleyjeff]

He works for a different company and is not a scouser

OK. I thought my reply was to "Merseysider" and also thought maybe 2+2 = coincidental 4.

 

[gray1404]

I am really surprised TPE are just asking for copies of unused tickets rather than originals for refund purposes.

 

[chorleyjeff]

I am really surprised TPE are just asking for copies of unused tickets rather than originals for refund purposes.

So was I.
Have now got an email asking for the tickets contrary to what I was told over the phone. Despite putting my name and address twice in my email claim for repayment they have asked for my adress.
Clearly they have just sent out a standard letter without looking at the content of my mail.
My fears about a wrangle to get my money back are back.
Good job I have kept hard copies of everything so far.
I wonder at what stage the substance of the claim will be considered ?
Waste of my time and theirs.
I'll keep a record of time and money wasted on this business from when I wasted time walking back from the non train just to see how much time and money is spent the claim. At £10 an hour it may well be a pointless exercise.

 

[gray1404]

It is normal for them to ask for the tickets back. Tbh, you should have sent them from the word go. They also won't accept your invoice for £10 an hour either. The best you can hope for is a refund of the ticket.

 

[chorleyjeff]

It is normal for them to ask for the tickets back. Tbh, you should have sent them from the word go. They also won't accept your invoice for £10 an hour either. The best you can hope for is a refund of the ticket.

Thanks for reply.
I thought it best to follow instructions even if they were just verbal.
I thought the tickets would have been needed to show they had not been used. The customer services person suggested keeping hold of the original tickets in case my letter was lost but then a naughty person might copy the tickets and use them !
The £10 an hour comment was a bit tongue in cheek but I reckon the cost of prolonging claims and entering into correspondence in a defensive posture will cost the company quite a few quid. So far for me it is a two letters at nearly £3 postage costs ( signed for delivery for the one with my tickets) and my time. Also a disinclination to use trains rather than my car when feasible could well develop.
Jeff

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks for reply.
I thought it best to follow instructions even if they were just verbal.
I thought the tickets would have been needed to show they had not been used. The customer services person suggested keeping hold of the original tickets in case my letter was lost but then a naughty person might copy the tickets and use them !
The £10 an hour comment was a bit tongue in cheek but I reckon the cost of prolonging claims and entering into correspondence in a defensive posture will cost the company quite a few quid. So far for me it is a two letters at nearly £3 postage costs ( signed for delivery for the one with my tickets) and my time. Also a disinclination to use trains rather than my car when feasible could well develop.
Jeff

I don't understand how this has been so complicated, given:

I do not want to get into needless wrangles about the repayment.

As was explained in post #3, all you need to do is return the tickets to the retailer with a note explaining they could not be used owing to you abandoning your journey. A refund then follows. Process is:

1) Take tickets
2) Put them in an envelope
3) Write note to explain why they're unused
4) Put the note in an envelope as well
5) Send it off
6) Wait for the refund

There was no need to phone TPE, as you only gave them a single day to respond to a letter which didn't even contain your tickets! I don't understand why you would do that - post #3 clearly says you'll be refunded within a month. Just follow the process and let them do their thing.

Now you have phoned them and fallen victim to what seems to be the agent's own confusion/incompetence about whether you were claiming Delay Repay (for which a copy of the tickets is usually sufficient), or a refund of unused tickets (for which you definitely need to send the actual tickets, to show they are unused).

You have further complicated matters with a flippant claim for £10 an hour expenses. Hopefully they ignore it and just process the refund, else your claim will just take longer.

This isn't to say it's your fault, because I reckon you were misled on the phone by an agent. But it is a good example of how you should just follow the process if you want to avoid a lot of buggering about.

 

[chorleyjeff]

I don't understand how this has been so complicated, given:



As was explained in post #3, all you need to do is return the tickets to the retailer with a note explaining they could not be used owing to you abandoning your journey. A refund then follows. Process is:

1) Take tickets
2) Put them in an envelope
3) Write note to explain why they're unused
4) Put the note in an envelope as well
5) Send it off
6) Wait for the refund

There was no need to phone TPE, as you only gave them a single day to respond to a letter which didn't even contain your tickets! I don't understand why you would do that - post #3 clearly says you'll be refunded within a month. Just follow the process and let them do their thing.

Now you have phoned them and fallen victim to what seems to be the agent's own confusion/incompetence about whether you were claiming Delay Repay (for which a copy of the tickets is usually sufficient), or a refund of unused tickets (for which you definitely need to send the actual tickets, to show they are unused).

You have further complicated matters with a flippant claim for £10 an hour expenses. Hopefully they ignore it and just process the refund, else your claim will just take longer.

This isn't to say it's your fault, because I reckon you were misled on the phone by an agent. But it is a good example of how you should just follow the process if you want to avoid a lot of buggering about.

Your reply seems to be typical defence of the railway regardless of the facts
The facts.
I was not able to make a journey as I wished because of delays.
I looked on the TPE website and took up the invitation to "chat"
The "chat" person told me to phone Customer Relations.
I phoned Customer Relations and who advised me to send COPIES of my tickets plus reasons for my claim. I did that and gave my home address to enable communication by post. In my letter I asked for a refund or credit for the same amount for future journeys.
Customer relations emailed me and told me I needed to send my tickets plus my address - again.
I have sent the tickets and my address.
I have now got another email from Customer Relations ( sent before they could have got my letter with tickets) asking how Ms "X" had dealt with my refund claim.
Both TPE and I have been perfectly polite and cordial in the mails and letters.
I fail to see why I should get criticism for my transactions with TPE.
What I do see from you is classic automatic defence of the railway and an assumption that I should know the ins and outs of their system when I have never been in contact with them except to buy tickets and once to ask a guard to be thanked for his great service.
I think I am entitled to express some exasperation on a web forum at getting conflicting advice ( even if well meant ) and spending money and time dealing with the claim - theirs as well as mine. If you disagree so be it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am really surprised TPE are just asking for copies of unused tickets rather than originals for refund purposes.

Some TOCs I think will accept a photo of a ticket cut in half, though this could I suppose be Photoshopped.

 

[AlterEgo]

Your reply seems to be typical defence of the railway regardless of the facts
The facts.
I was not able to make a journey as I wished because of delays.
I looked on the TPE website and took up the invitation to "chat"
The "chat" person told me to phone Customer Relations.
I phoned Customer Relations and who advised me to send COPIES of my tickets plus reasons for my claim. I did that and gave my home address to enable communication by post. In my letter I asked for a refund or credit for the same amount for future journeys.
Customer relations emailed me and told me I needed to send my tickets plus my address - again.
I have sent the tickets and my address.
I have now got another email from Customer Relations ( sent before they could have got my letter with tickets) asking how Ms "X" had dealt with my refund claim.
Both TPE and I have been perfectly polite and cordial in the mails and letters.
I fail to see why I should get criticism for my transactions with TPE.
What I do see from you is classic automatic defence of the railway and an assumption that I should know the ins and outs of their system when I have never been in contact with them except to buy tickets and once to ask a guard to be thanked for his great service.
I think I am entitled to express some exasperation on a web forum at getting conflicting advice ( even if well meant ) and spending money and time dealing with the claim - theirs as well as mine. If you disagree so be it.

It's not a defence of the railway. I clearly said twice that I think you were misled by the staff.

All I saying is, if you'd have followed the process as written down in the Conditions of Travel, and after people had advised you how to tackle it, very simply, you'd not have had these problems. Why not just follow the process after the third post explained how to do all of this? You don't need to know the ins and outs of their system - you did the right thing by asking how to obtain the refund, and then didn't - for whatever reason - follow the advice!

What my reply explains is how, no matter how well intentioned you were, going off-piste doesn't yield results. I can say this because I've seen claims go wrong in the past when I used to work handling this kind of thing.

Your claim for time and expenses etc is, at your own admission, tongue in cheek and will not yield results quickly. I am surprised that you chose this, given you stated your aim was to get this sorted as soon as possible.

None of this is a defence of the processes of TPE which have hardly covered themselves in glory here.

 

[AlterEgo]

Some TOCs I think will accept a photo of a ticket cut in half, though this could I suppose be Photoshopped.

This is for delay repay, isn't it? Not for a refund of unused tickets.

 

[bb21]

Your reply seems to be typical defence of the railway regardless of the facts

I would say that AlterEgo is one of the most experienced (it not the most experienced) person on the forum in these matters, and his advice in this area is always as objective and sound as I can see. I would recommend that you give his advice serious consideration. He is highly knowledgeable and knows how the system works.

 

[yorkie]

It sounds like someone at TPE didn't give correct advice, but I would absolutely agree with bb21 that the advice from AlterEgo is sound.

You will often find better advice on this forum than is available from an 'average' customer support person representing a typical TOC; that is perhaps partly because there are some members of this forum who are employed in roles that require significantly more knowledge than average.

This is not the only case I've seen recently where a refund for an abandoned journey has proven problematical; it is not always as easy as claiming for delay compensation.

 

[chorleyjeff]

It sounds like someone at TPE didn't give correct advice, but I would absolutely agree with bb21 that the advice from AlterEgo is sound.

You will often find better advice on this forum than is available from an 'average' customer support person representing a typical TOC; that is perhaps partly because there are some members of this forum who are employed in roles that require significantly more knowledge than average.

This is not the only case I've seen recently where a refund for an abandoned journey has proven problematical; it is not always as easy as claiming for delay compensation.

I looked on the website and followed the advice. Simples.

 

[chorleyjeff]

I would say that AlterEgo is one of the most experienced (it not the most experienced) person on the forum in these matters, and his advice in this area is always as objective and sound as I can see. I would recommend that you give his advice serious consideration. He is highly knowledgeable and knows how the system works.

The TPE website gave advice which I am following.