A Thousand Train Coaches are to be Scrapped

[Chris L]

A Thousand Train Coaches are to be Scrapped
These are the first of 178 Useful Electric Trains being Scrapped by London TFL
All 1193 Coaches

http://rail-news.com/2010/10/09/first-a-stock-sent-for-scrap/
First A stock sent for scrap
October 9, 2010

>As the delivery of S stock increases, the first Metropolitan line A stock is being sent for scrap this weekend.
The Metropolitan line is the first underground route to receive air conditioned trains, the first one entering passenger service on August 2nd, with all new trains expected in service by the end of 2011.<

Comment
Scrap they may be to you Londoners, but these trains are even now much better than most trains we have in the North.
These are the first of 178 Useful Electric Trains being Scrapped by London TFL
All 1193 Coaches
Add some EV Batteries, which are now becoming much less expensive, and they could do many more years of service on our under invested railways in the North.
A few short lengths of DC electrification to charge the batteries and they could run for miles.

Thanks
Chris L
Engineer

 

[ainsworth74]

Add some EV Batteries, which are now becoming much less expensive ... A few short lengths of DC electrification to charge the batteries and they could run for miles.

Where is the money going to come from for these batteries, the electrification, the staff retraining, the route clearances and I'm sure there will be other expenses. Where is the money coming from?

 

[yorksrob]

It would certainly be a novel way of dealing with the rolling stock shortage, and presumably it would be cheaper than building the new trains which have been cancelled anyway. What construction are they in terms of Mk1, Mk2 etc?

 

[O L Leigh]

Scrap they may be to you Londoners, but these trains are even now much better than most trains we have in the North.

No they're not. Trust me on this.

O L Leigh

 

[me123]

In all fairness, I know the North has major problems with rolling stock (I for one would love to see the abolition of pacers). But give me one good route that the A stock would go to.

Outwith the London Underground, there are no routes in the UK using the 4th rail system, and the benefits of converting another route (such as Merseyrail's network) to 4th rail for what would undeniably be only a few years would be negligable. Let's face it; the stock is now about 50 years old! It hasn't got much life left in it. The Class 303s were introduced at the same time, and they all left the network about 10 years ago now.

 

[tbtc]

Brilliant, we could turn the north of England into a Heriatige Line!

 

[Darandio]

What? It isn't already?

 

[mrcheek]

Does Chris L work for the Daily Mail?

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

What? It isn't already?

I too thought it was!

Its a shame to see them go, i remember my first LU ride was on these, so its quite an emotional time! But, its nice to see some modernising occuring... albeit still in London.

 

[Tomnick]

I was under the impression that the A stock, being on the spacious side, would be out-of-gauge for many routes anyway, leaving aside the obvious question of providing the necessary electrification.

 

[mumrar]

What a fantastically misleading thread title. It implies that stored carriages such as mk1, mk2 and mk3s are to be cut up. They would be infinitely more useful than old tube stock which needs a lot of infrastructure first. Wouldn't the speed limit of these trains also make it quite pointless unless they built lots more stations for stop starting

 

[Greenback]

There are too many problems (staff training, speedlimit, the fact that the stock is coming to the endof its life anyway, cost of conversion, and loading gauge) to make this idea in any way workable.

 

[Pumbaa]

Scrap they may be to you Londoners, but these trains are even now much better than most trains we have in the North.

If by better you mean falling apart with rust and the severe lack of heavy maintenance done in the last few years with their expected withdrawal, out of gauge, unable to go above 60, too long for platforms up here, driver operated only, running off 4th rail not 3rd then YES I agree with you.

Just make do with the Pacers I think.

 

[ukrob]

Sounds like a journalist fishing for quotes to me.

 

[fgwrich]

If by better you mean falling apart with rust and the severe lack of heavy maintenance done in the last few years with their expected withdrawal, out of gauge, unable to go above 60, too long for platforms up here, driver operated only, running off 4th rail not 3rd then YES I agree with you.

Just make do with the Pacers I think.

Funny, the three in eastleigh arn't that rusty!

:roll:

But as for this story and lead title...WRONG, as much as i love the 'A' Stock, they are of 50 years old and times have caught up with them...

The new S Stock is by all means the opposite of the A Stock = Comfortable 3+2 seating with small luggage racks. fairly comfortable ride quality, semi fast / express commuter type services from amersham...with the introduction of the S stock, i can see Chilterns peak passenger numbers increasing and TFL's Metropolitan line - ...

-

 

[tom1649]

Funny, the three in eastleigh arn't that rusty!

-

That's because they're built out of aluminium, not steel.

The A Stock has done very well to last 50 years. The high quality refurbishment in the 1990s helped a great deal in keeping them in service so long. Remember how scruffy the unpainted, and unrefurbished 1959 stock looked on the Northern Line by the time the last one ran in January 2000?

 

[Pumbaa]

The new S Stock is by all means the opposite of the A Stock = Comfortable 3+2 seating with small luggage racks. fairly comfortable ride quality, semi fast / express commuter type services from amersham...with the introduction of the S stock, i can see Chilterns peak passenger numbers increasing and TFL's Metropolitan line - ...

Amersham/Chesham/Ricky are privileged to have the service they have. The S stock is a sensible idea; homogenous fleet, well designed to carry high numbers of people quickly and efficiently (I say 'well designed' loosely - it is a product of Derby) and if anything, they have the choice that other commuters don't. They can like it or lump it, and take a step back in line with thousands of other commuters over London.

 

[Crossforth]

It's a shame to see the A stock go.

Have any been secured for preservation?

 

[NSEFAN]

Am I right in thinking the A stock has asbesto insulation?

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Very sad to see these go, I'll make sure I go on the Metropolitan Line to make the most of the A Stock in the next couple of months.

As for preservation, I am sure the London Transport Musuem will preserve one exsample?

 

[starrymarkb]

wasn't some journo proposing they are used with class 60s in a rather bat**** insane moment.

They also fall under the Mk1 ban, not a problem on LUL where every train and signal has ATP in the form of the Train Stops but definitely not covered under grandfather rights on Network Rail

 

[yorksrob]

Well, fifty years is probably a bit long, even for a re-cycler like me. (Personally I didn't find the A stock anywhere near as pleasant an environment to travel in as the EPB's refurbished in the early eighties anyway!)

That said, what about the OP's idea of using battery powered trains - possibly charged up by a short length of conductor rail or overhead line? Could this be used on routes that are unlikely to justify full electrification? and if so how far off are we? As someone who's not particularly technologically minded I'd be interested to know what the forum thinks.

 

[tbtc]

If the OP could give one example of a route in "the North' that these ancient trains would be suitable for, then I'm listening. Otherwise the whole thing is a complete non-starter

 

[Darandio]

If the OP could give one example of a route in "the North' that these ancient trains would be suitable for, then I'm listening. Otherwise the whole thing is a complete non-starter

Not really expecting you to get a reply to that. Looks like a join up, start a thread and sit back and take quotes, then mangle them.

Prove me wrong OP (Engineer)

 

[tbtc]

Not really expecting you to get a reply to that. Looks like a join up, start a thread and sit back and take quotes, then mangle them.

Prove me wrong OP (Engineer)

I think you're right. I hope you're wrong, but I'm always a little suspicious of people starting "controversial" threads in their first post.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It's a shame to see the A stock go.

Have any been secured for preservation?

I recall a discussion on Tubegroup last year in which it was stated that one may be kept, but it won't be the pioneer unit ( 5000 ) unfortunately.

 

[tom1649]

Am I right in thinking the A stock has asbesto insulation?

Wouldn't this have been removed when they were heavily refurbished between 1994 and 1998?

 

[jopsuk]

Mention elsewhere on this forum that the first ones to be scrapped have been out of service for a while, being dead? The remaining ones cause problems due to reliability.

As said, these are fifty year old trains. Your "inferior" trains in the north, whilst diesel (which tends to have a slightly shorter lifespan than electric) are half that age.

Also, your suggestion of laying third rail is out of the question and a much bigger under taking in any case than you might think. The units would also have to be changed to third rail- they're 3rd & 4th rail powered. Laying third rail would be ridiculous also as any future electrification in the north, barring possible short extensions on the Liverpool system, will be Overhead- after all, all of Northern's EMU fleet is 25kV AC.

For all that they are eulogised, these are bouncy, rattly old trains being somewhat limped towards well deserved gas axes after half a century of sterling service.

 

[lm321412]

I'm sure if they was after some EMUs for some third/forth rail project up north they would much prefer to dig out the 508s than some non-standard Tube stock!

Just face it, Pacers are in for the long haul!

 

[tom1649]

I'm sure if they was after some EMUs for some third/forth rail project up north they would much prefer to dig out the 508s than some non-standard Tube stock!

Just face it, Pacers are in for the long haul!

Anyone wanting ex London Underground stock would be much better waiting a few more years until the D stock on the District Line is withdrawn, as it was only built in 1980.

Of course the 1938 tube stock on the Isle of Wight will need replacing soon, but it will have to be the smaller sized deep level tube stock which replaces it. I gather that the 1973 tube stock on the Piccadilly Line is being considered as replacement.