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A Standard Class Railway for All

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The Planner

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That's why I would have expected it to be included within HS2. For a journey between two major cities of 80 miles (straight line) or 90 miles (by rail) to take more than 1½ hours shows the limitations of tinkering with services on the classic lines. Ideally it should be about an hour, but probably 1h15 is more realistic on a mixed-traffic line – and that would be in line with the journey times predicted for the Transpennine Route Upgrade – but I know that is going to be unachievable on the existing route without a major negative impact on other services.
Unless its potentially one stop only, I doubt you could get close to an hour even with HS2.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Could it theoretically be possible to terminate trains from the Soho direction, and then, instead of reversing, form the northbound by going towards Aston, then over to Soho using the link line?
Yes, but you would have a disjointed journey time northbound.
 
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HSTEd

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The planned journey time to Preston was 50 minutes, and 1h06 to Lancaster – I don't think an hour to Liverpool is overly ambitious.
It's 36 minutes from Crewe to Liverpool on the classic line, stopping only at Runcorn.

The long slow crawl in the Lime Street approach alone will take a relative age.

If Phase 2A was built you might be able to push an hour, but without it I am very skeptical.
 

jfollows

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Could it theoretically be possible to terminate trains from the Soho direction, and then, instead of reversing, form the northbound by going towards Aston, then over to Soho using the link line?
The evening AM9/309 from Manchester used to do exactly this and return to Manchester immediately. I caught it a few times from platform 1 at New Street.
 

RailWonderer

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The catering is as expected. Although we manage perfectly fine without buffets on GWR. The HS2 trains will not have the daft kitchens every 5 carriages
There are GWR crew on this forum that defend these waste of space kitchens as areas for staff to put things in, crazy as it sounds.
However, the lack of density in either city suggests a train that makes more stops is the better way to serve the populations than a limited stop fast train from the centres only.
Lack of density? Birmingham urban area population is 2.6 million and 925k Liverpool. That’s half the size of a Nordic country.
 

HSTEd

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Modern high performance multiple units have rather reduced the stopping penalties for intermediate stops compared to old loco hauled trains.

Does it really matter very much if the Birmingham-Liverpool train takes a few minutes to stop at the intermediate locations, saving us the cost of a separate "slow" train?
 

JonathanH

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Does it really matter very much if the Birmingham-Liverpool train takes a few minutes to stop at the intermediate locations, saving us the cost of a separate "slow" train?
Trouble is that one person's view of connectivity at the smaller stations is another's person's view of the train service being too slow between its primary calling points.

I note this story of a Bournemouth MP, wanting to see faster trains from Bournemouth to London, hoping that SWR will recast the timetable to run faster trains.

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/25008442.mp-calls-train-timetable-recast-speed-journeys/
MP calls for train timetable recast to speed up journeys
15th March Transport Bournemouth

PLANS are underway to reduce journey times between Bournemouth and London.

Tom Hayes, MP for Bournemouth East, is campaigning to make travel between the two destinations faster and more convenient.

He said: “I want people to be able to travel between Bournemouth and London conveniently.

“I made this request following discussions with local people and businesses and ahead of South Western Railway’s nationalisation in May 2025. SWR is the first major train operator to be returned to public ownership.

“I want constituents, businesses, and Bournemouth to benefit from this transition, and the return of faster train times.”

Mr Hayes is also pushing for improved Wi-Fi on all SWR services and better accessibility at Pokesdown Station.

To achieve faster journeys, he is calling for SWR to carry out a full timetable review — something that has not been done since 2004.

This process, known as a recast, involves reorganising train schedules across the network to create better pathways for faster services.

SWR has acknowledged that a recast is the most effective way to improve journey times but said these reviews are complex and happen infrequently.

The last major recast for this route was in 2004, but SWR confirmed they are monitoring changing travel patterns, which could support a future review.

Mr Hayes added: “While they haven't put it in writing yet, their response is a nod and a wink that it could happen.

"A recast involves reviewing the entire timetable to identify ways to improve journey times, and they are very supportive of making those improvements.

"It's a big task that requires careful planning, as they’ll need to decide whether to reduce stops in some areas or introduce more express services. They’ll also have to consider that some of these stops are in places experiencing economic growth, so there’s a lot to balance."

A South Western Railway spokesperson said: “Bournemouth is an important destination on our network, so we are pleased to work closely with MPs like Tom and BCP Council to provide the best possible service for our customers.

“We continuously monitor travel patterns to optimise our timetable, balancing the need for a quick and reliable service with infrastructure capacity and demand at other stations. Any significant changes would involve consultation with our local stakeholders.

“While we provide free on-board Wi-Fi for all our customers, we are actively developing ways to enhance the coverage across our network.”
 

Topological

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There are GWR crew on this forum that defend these waste of space kitchens as areas for staff to put things in, crazy as it sounds.

Lack of density? Birmingham urban area population is 2.6 million and 925k Liverpool. That’s half the size of a Nordic country.
Density = population/area, not just population.

Nordic countries are not known for being high-density.

Birmingham's urban area presumably includes Wolverhampton, which would not be served by a train from Curzon Street.

There is also the point that larger areas lend themselves to more evenly spaced stops.

For reference the West Midlands population density is 1200 people per square kilometer, Greater Manchester is 2282.

Merseyside is just over 2000, but the smaller stations such as Runcorn are not included in that figure. Hence the smaller stations that get served do indeed need to be spread out. It would be reasonable to say those in Merseyside could railhead through Lime Street.
 

Bevan Price

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On weekdays, the Liverpool / Birmingham services are a mixture of 4 and 8 coach 350s. **
** Not sure about Sundays - a day I currently try to avoid travelling by rail.

Some - at least will become 5 coach 730s - sometime ..............
 

The Planner

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Modern high performance multiple units have rather reduced the stopping penalties for intermediate stops compared to old loco hauled trains.

Does it really matter very much if the Birmingham-Liverpool train takes a few minutes to stop at the intermediate locations, saving us the cost of a separate "slow" train?
The advantage is reduced in longer door cycles and professional driving standards.
 

AHBD

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........


There will be catering spaces on all HS2 trains because of the decision to have a uniform fleet of rolling stock with uniform interiors.

So Birmingham trains will be provided with buffet facilities spec'd for a trip to Scotland. I expect that staffing costs and the short journey will mean the buffets are simply never used and will waste lots of space on the Birmingham trains.
Pedal cycle storage....?
 
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