A south coast high speed line?

[Bald Rick]

However, I do think reopening such lines where possible is better than carving up more of the countryside and farmland of the UK.

many of the lines suggested for reopening here and elsewhere are, now, countryside and farmland.

 

[JamesT]

Great Western Main Line is a century-old railway yet it's still possible to upgrade it to high speed running.

There’s high speed and there’s high speed. 140mph may be possible on sections of the GWML, but the >200mph of HS2 would be out of the question. The GWML may also be somewhat of a special case, being particularly straight and flat (Brunel’s billiard table).
I was more thinking of lines that had been abandoned, which are more likely to be only suitable for lower speeds as that’s all they needed at the time. I’m assuming when BR did its de duplication it will have mostly chosen the better route to keep.

 

[tasky]

On to the terminus capacity issue, does anybody know how much platform capacity Crossrail 2 relieves at Waterloo? I also note there are already five 400m platforms at the old Waterloo international station.

 

[JonathanH]

I also note there are already five 400m platforms at the old Waterloo international station.

Didn't they get shortened somewhat as part of their use by SWR now?

 

[cle]

I believe so, and only 4 are in use. They're comfortable to fit all current domestic stock though.

 

[swt_passenger]

On to the terminus capacity issue, does anybody know how much platform capacity Crossrail 2 relieves at Waterloo? I also note there are already five 400m platforms at the old Waterloo international station.

5 x 250m nowadays, I’m afraid. Shortened at both ends during the remodelling, unusually there are points and crossovers at the country end within the former “international shed”…

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jul 2022 ==

I believe so, and only 4 are in use. They're comfortable to fit all current domestic stock though.

All 5 are in use according to RTT today. But were there only four in use at one of the transitional stages of the work?

 

[Bald Rick]

On to the terminus capacity issue, does anybody know how much platform capacity Crossrail 2 relieves at Waterloo? I also note there are already five 400m platforms at the old Waterloo international station.

enough for 8 trains an hour at 200m length.

 

[AzureOtsu]

This whole thread is all pie in the sky thinking anyway. Realistically there just isn't demand to pay for any level of enhancement on the south's railways now. As posters have pointed out in another thread the collapse in peak demand on the Portsmouth direct means that only two trains an hour can be justified from Waterloo to Portsmouth.

The west coast way (line in question for replacement with a high speed line) has been full capacity on weekdays for months, trains are almost full standing. the demand almost certainly is there, southern just don't have the units at the moment.

 

[AM9]

The west coast way (line in question for replacement with a high speed line) has been full capacity on weekdays for months, trains are almost full standing. the demand almost certainly is there, southern just don't have the units at the moment.

But building a high speed line is an expensive and time-consuming way to increase a line's capacity instead of procuring a few more trains. What is running along the coastway route now - four, six and eight-car Electrostars? Even if some key stations were extended to take 12-car stock it would be much cheaper and quicker.

 

[MarkyT]

5 x 250m nowadays, I’m afraid. Shortened at both ends during the remodelling, unusually there are points and crossovers at the country end within the former “international shed”…

By shortening the platforms, the Waterloo project created a large new circulation area at the buffer stop end which helps to relieve crowding on the main concourse, with reinstated additional passageway to the Underground also helping this. The new throat layout incorporates more parallelism than the old International one, which hosted a much less frequent Eurostar service. The only way to fit some of the additional pointwork in was to sacrifice usable platform length at that end too, resulting in some new fittings under the roof. What remains is very comfortable for 12x20m or equivalent, which is the maximum required for domestic trains on all routes accessible from the terminus.

 

[AzureOtsu]

But building a high speed line is an expensive and time-consuming way to increase a line's capacity instead of procuring a few more trains. What is running along the coastway route now - four, six and eight-car Electrostars? Even if some key stations were extended to take 12-car stock it would be much cheaper and quicker.

I was playing devil's advocate for the idea but I agree with you, southern just needs more/longer trains, my argument was that the demand is very clearly there

 

[swt_passenger]

By shortening the platforms, the Waterloo project created a large new circulation area at the buffer stop end which helps to relieve crowding on the main concourse, with reinstated additional passageway to the Underground also helping this. The new throat layout incorporates more parallelism than the old International one, which hosted a much less frequent Eurostar service. The only way to fit some of the additional pointwork in was to sacrifice usable platform length at that end too, resulting in some new fittings under the roof. What remains is very comfortable for 12x20m or equivalent, which is the maximum required for domestic trains on all routes accessible from the terminus.

Yes, and I wasn’t actually intending to criticise the changes at all. My intention was to indicate surprise that someone was unaware of the changes.

All that you say in explanation was discussed at length at the time it was being done.

 

[MarkyT]

Yes, and I wasn’t actually intending to criticise the changes at all. My intention was to indicate surprise that someone was unaware of the changes.

All that you say in explanation was discussed at length at the time it was being done.

Just summarising it for anyone who may be unaware.

 

[swt_passenger]

Just summarising it for anyone who may be unaware.

Ok no problem.

 

[30907]

When the LSWR got to Dorchester they took one look and said "too difficult" so went to Weymouth, instead heading west via Yeovil, skirting the Dorset Downs and following the River Axe....And there's the environmental factor - does anyone really think a tunnel is going to be allowed under Maiden Castle?

Pedantically, they went nowhere until the GW/Ws&W arrived, but debated the two possible routes to Exeter for 15 years. And you could easily avoid Maiden Castle

Not that I am suggesting anyone should build a railway 5hat way, let alone a HSL.

 

[HSTEd]

I'm not sure Maiden Castle has lots of archaeology deep below surrounding ground level, it is after all a hill fort, so you could just dip under it.

Or just go a couple of km north or south.....

Ultimately political considerations means the bulk of any new line is going to have to be in tunnel either way, at which point you might as well just go straight to your load centres. The political capital expenditure over HS2 for surface running will not be repeated.