A slightly odd prosecution case outcome

[Bletchleyite]

That's all fine in theory until the day it gets a staff member punched for "talking down to me".

Many staff do say that already. I'd agree that if a ticket is being sold where a PF or prosecution could be applicable (which is most of the network these days), it should be mandatory for staff to say that and either it should be printed on the ticket on a yellow background in bold text or a separate card should be given with the ticket explaining it.

 

[island]

Many staff do say that already. I'd agree that if a ticket is being sold where a PF or prosecution could be applicable (which is most of the network these days), it should be mandatory for staff to say that and either it should be printed on the ticket on a yellow background in bold text or a separate card should be given with the ticket explaining it.

It used to be printed on the reverse of ticket stock used for on board sales, but I have no idea whether that remains the case.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It used to be printed on the reverse of ticket stock used for on board sales, but I have no idea whether that remains the case.

Trouble is I guess people won't look at the back unless pointed out.

 

[skyhigh]

It used to be printed on the reverse of ticket stock used for on board sales, but I have no idea whether that remains the case.

It still is, but it's not very obvious

 

[jon0844]

I had a similar incident to Ms Pickett's, but - to their credit - the gate staff adopted a different stance. I had been commuting from St Albans to St Pancras for over 30 years. But one Wednesday my KeyCard didn't let me out through the STP barriers. With horror, I realised it had expired the day before. Unusually I hadn't extended the monthly renewal to the fifth week's Friday, expecting (at renewal) to take few midweek days off. Being a plastic card, there was of course no date on it. And the barriers at SAC had (again unusually) all been open; so I got no expiry alert before starting the journey. I politely explained the situation to the STP gate staff, asking them to let me through so I could buy a day return at the nearby ticket office. Rather to my surprise, I was allowed to do this, and I even returned to the gate moments later to show the staff the (albeit late) outbound ticket; I didn't want her to think I'd conned her! All praise was due for this common sense, especially towards a customer who'd contributed over £120,000 to the TOCs' coffers.

I am pretty sure the T&Cs say you must touch in and out, so even if the gates were open you should have tapped in - and would quite possibly have been alerted to the issue by the error beeps.

You were fortunate some discretion was shown (if you've travelled for 30 years you may well be recognised) but for reasons explained elsewhere, too much discretion would sadly encourage people to just try it on - especially with the flexible season ticket where there's every incentive to try and avoid tapping in or out!

 

[Haywain]

especially with the flexible season ticket where there's every incentive to try and avoid tapping in or out!

I’m not sure that’s relevant as a Flexi season should be activated before use, something that can be done with a phone app.

 

[dastocks]

I know we generally don’t do comparisons with other forms of transport on this forum but I’ve been driving for over 30 years, probably driven the best part of a million miles in that time, never had a speeding ticket. What discretion would I (or should I) be shown if I was caught speeding.

Just saying.

IME quite a lot. I don't recall the last time I actually paid a fine *and* got points, but there have probably been a couple of times that an officer has offered 'words of advice'. I've also attended a couple of speed awareness courses when I was caught by cameras: these cost the same as the fixed penalty fine but you don't get the points.

 

[Hadders]

IME quite a lot. I don't recall the last time I actually paid a fine *and* got points, but there have probably been a couple of times that an officer has offered 'words of advice'. I've also attended a couple of speed awareness courses when I was caught by cameras: these cost the same as the fixed penalty fine but you don't get the points.

I would consider both an administrative settlement and a speed awareness course as a form of discretion.

We’re getting off topic however…

 

[spag23]

Mine was not a flexible season ticket, with any "incentive" to avoid tapping in. Although loaded onto plastic, it was an "old-fashioned" time-limited five week season ticket. So I could have spent 33 solid days travelling all round London Thameslink and TfL, 24 hours a day. Tapping in and out was not relevant to any charging or recording, and only necessary to get through barriers (where closed). So that's why I hadn't tapped in at St Albans' open gate on the day after it had - unknowingly - expired. As to the STP gate staff's discretion being based on "recognising" me as a regular passenger, this gateline processes thousands of passengers per hour. I doubt they knew from Adam, but simply (and refreshingly) believed me and allowed me to remedy the error within moments of realising it. In fact I did still suffer a small loss, as the return ticket was several pounds more expensive than the season ticket daily rate. But I was OK with that.

 

[Haywain]

Mine was not a flexible season ticket, with any "incentive" to avoid tapping in.

Not a flexi season but in your case there is still an incentive to tapping in, even if you don't have to, as it would confirm the validity or otherwise of the ticket.

 

[spag23]

Not a flexi season but in your case there is still an incentive to tapping in, even if you don't have to, as it would confirm the validity or otherwise of the ticket.

Yes but...if the gates are set to be open, it's usually because there's a fault in the data processing, and the gates can't read anyone's cards! Worse still, I have on occasion swiped my (valid) card as I breezed through an open barrier, only to have the damn thing slam shut on me. Nursing my injured ribs - and trapped by people ploughing into the back of me, we then have to call the staff over to release me. So hardly an incentive to tap in to an open gate! I'm just glad I'm now retired, and free of all this hassle.

 

[jon0844]

I am pretty sure you are told you must tap in and out, irrespective of whether the gates are in operation. Now if gates are open in the peak to relieve large crowds, I guess you'll be waved through - but if the guidance is to tap and you don't, it then runs the risk of you getting into such a situation (and then having to explain that you were told not to tap due to large crowds or whatever).

I'd just get used to tapping in and out all the time to prevent any issues, and making sure not to be on auto pilot so as not to hear any warning.

 

[skyhigh]

if the gates are set to be open, it's usually because there's a fault in the data processing, and the gates can't read anyone's cards!

On the contrary, they're normally set to open because they're not staffed.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Yes but...if the gates are set to be open, it's usually because there's a fault in the data processing, and the gates can't read anyone's cards! Worse still, I have on occasion swiped my (valid) card as I breezed through an open barrier, only to have the damn thing slam shut on me. Nursing my injured ribs - and trapped by people ploughing into the back of me, we then have to call the staff over to release me. So hardly an incentive to tap in to an open gate! I'm just glad I'm now retired, and free of all this hassle.

At the stations we have if the gates are set to open it's usually because they're short staffed.

 

[PeterC]

Not a flexi season but in your case there is still an incentive to tapping in, even if you don't have to, as it would confirm the validity or otherwise of the ticket.

Before I retired I always touched in with my Oyster travelcard on the grounds that if I did it automatically I wouldn't forget in a out of zone journey