A scam phone calls and emails discussion.

[MotCO]

I was told today by a recorded voice from 'Amazon' that I had purchased a new iPhone for $399, and that if that was not correct to press 1 etc. I suppose that is easier than logging on my Amazon account to check

 

[najaB]

I was told today by a recorded voice from 'Amazon' that I had purchased a new iPhone for $399...

That's a pretty good deal. A new iPhone would be closer to $800 from what I've seen.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Had a call this afternoon saying my NI number had been compromised a male recorded message from 0747741497 i just hung up.

That appears to be one digit too few?

 

[Westcountryman]

That appears to be one digit too few?

Also unlikely the DWP would call from a mobile.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Also unlikely the DWP would call from a mobile.

Might have meant 01747741497 if it was a landline number but Googling that number doesn't produce any search results.

 

[Typhoon]

Also unlikely the DWP would call from a mobile.

While that is extremely unlikely (in the case of the DWP) I would be wary of dismissing calls from mobiles out of hand. I had a missed a call from a mobile, didn't recognise the number so dismissed it. Turned out it was a surgery staff member, working from home, to arrange my Covid jab.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

While that is extremely unlikely (in the case of the DWP) I would be wary of dismissing calls from mobiles out of hand. I had a missed a call from a mobile, didn't recognise the number so dismissed it. Turned out it was a surgery staff member, working from home, to arrange my Covid jab.

Agreed, but that is from a very localised site whereas the DWP is a national body.

 

[Typhoon]

Agreed, but that is from a very localised site whereas the DWP is a national body.

Sure, that is why I began 'While that is extremely unlikely'. If it was the DWP they would have backed it up with a letter in any case. I suppose my point is that we may receive genuine (ie non scam or nuisance) calls from unknown sources if people are working from home.

 

[Westcountryman]

Might have meant 01747741497 if it was a landline number but Googling that number doesn't produce any search results.

01747 is Shaftesbury/ Gillingham, Dorset.

 

[Lucan]

If anybody receives a scam call, can you please write here which number it was from so that we can all block said number?

I think you are vastly underestimating the scale of this "industry", and the magnitude of the operations needed to combat it. By spoofing, scammers and shady telemarketeers are continually using new numbers, and some anti-scamming websites are having over a thousand new numbers added to their databases every day ( who-called.co.uk has been mentioned). I doubt RUKF would want to start running a database of scam numbers.

Most of the fight against spamming and scamming is being carried out by individuals such as Jim Browning using eg Youtube and TV interviews. Some, like Kitboga and Pierogi, do it full time with their YouTube income. But conspicuously, and almost entirely, absent from the fight are government authorities including police, and phone companies. This is a ridiculous state of affairs and if I believed in conspiracy theories I think I'd start here. There are theories that the phone companies make a lot of money out of scam calls (kickbacks in third world countries?)

I have just checked what it would cost me to call India - a 23p connection charge and then 90p per minute. If scammers in India had to pay anywhere near this to call me their business model would collapse. Yet we are told that each phone call costs the scammer almost nothing, in which case why? Whatever the charges in India are, why doesn't BT charge the connection into their system at least the national rate? It might be a charge to some intermediate carrier rather than directly to the scammer, but the charge would be passed back to the scammer eventually. Better still would be some international co-operation, but don't expect India to do anything about it.

 

[ainsworth74]

Also unlikely the DWP would call from a mobile.

Sure, that is why I began 'While that is extremely unlikely'. If it was the DWP they would have backed it up with a letter in any case. I suppose my point is that we may receive genuine (ie non scam or nuisance) calls from unknown sources if people are working from home.

I can't recall what it is off the top of my head but when the DWP ring it displays an 0800 number which if you call back just says words to the effect of "This is the DWP, we tried calling for you and will try again later. Thank you.".

 

[Westcountryman]

I think you are vastly underestimating the scale of this "industry", and the magnitude of the operations needed to combat it. By spoofing, scammers and shady telemarketeers are continually using new numbers, and some anti-scamming websites are having over a thousand new numbers added to their databases every day ( who-called.co.uk has been mentioned). I doubt RUKF would want to start running a database of scam numbers.

Most of the fight against spamming and scamming is being carried out by individuals such as Jim Browning using eg Youtube and TV interviews. Some, like Kitboga and Pierogi, do it full time with their YouTube income. But conspicuously, and almost entirely, absent from the fight are government authorities including police, and phone companies. This is a ridiculous state of affairs and if I believed in conspiracy theories I think I'd start here. There are theories that the phone companies make a lot of money out of scam calls (kickbacks in third world countries?)

I have just checked what it would cost me to call India - a 23p connection charge and then 90p per minute. If scammers in India had to pay anywhere near this to call me their business model would collapse. Yet we are told that each phone call costs the scammer almost nothing, in which case why? Whatever the charges in India are, why doesn't BT charge the connection into their system at least the national rate? It might be a charge to some intermediate carrier rather than directly to the scammer, but the charge would be passed back to the scammer eventually. Better still would be some international co-operation, but don't expect India to do anything about it.

Trouble is they don't phone from India or Nigeria. They use VOIP, calling from their computers and somehow connecting into the UK phone system here. I have no idea whether or how they are charged at the UK end, but it will certainly be much cheaper than phoning from the scammer's country. I suppose it would be possible to stop scammers by not allowing to use VOIP from India, but that would potentially stop legitimate calls, and even if it were possible they would probably be able to reroute via a different country.

 

[najaB]

I suppose it would be possible to stop scammers by not allowing to use VOIP from India...

That's a complete and total non-starter. Virtually all international phone traffic is VoIP these days, circuit switching is very much last century technology.

and even if it were possible they would probably be able to reroute via a different country.

Site to site VPN to a endpoint hosted with a cheap VPS provider and the traffic is entering the network from inside the UK.

I have just checked what it would cost me to call India - a 23p connection charge and then 90p per minute.

Those are retail prices and bear no relation at all to the telco to telco rates. UK voice termination charges are around 0.1p per minute.

 

[Hardcastle]

That appears to be one digit too few?

Its does but i've just checked & that is the number that shows up on calls answered i did have a another call a couple of hours earlier on a different number which i did not answer again only 10 digits.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

One of the now-daily care team who look after my 79 year old wife at home mentioned that her husband had took a recorded message call with a female voice, purporting to be from BT to inform whoever answered the phone that both their landline and the internet would be terminated in the evening owing to "illegal activity". He normally would just ignore it but decided to press the requested keyboard button to speak to "the manager" and just as that person began to read from his prepared script, he interjected and said something like " Its about time that BT cut off both our landline and internet, so that will put an end to all these scam telephone calls and e-mails". He then hung up.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Its does but i've just checked & that is the number that shows up on calls answered i did have a another call a couple of hours earlier on a different number which i did not answer again only 10 digits.

Handful of UK towns still have some bona-fide 10 digit telephone numbers, this includes the Northwich area (01606 xxxxx numbers).

 

[Lucan]

Trouble is they don't phone from India or Nigeria. They use VOIP, calling from their computers and somehow connecting into the UK phone system here. I have no idea whether or how they are charged at the UK end,

Indeed, but at some point their call enters the BT system because it arrives at my landline phone over BT/OpenReach wires. At that point of entry BT could charge the entity it arrives from.

Those are retail prices and bear no relation at all to the telco to telco rates. UK voice termination charges are around 0.1p per minute.

That is exactly the problem. It is a loophole that needs closing. BT should charge the incoming telco from abroad more than a trivial price. The BT Pay As You Go price for its own customers is 20p/minute. Even though I expect a difference between retail and wholesale rates, there is a very serious disconnect between those two prices for what is the same function in both cases.

 

[MaxB]

I wonder what the hit rate is for people falling for this scam?

The fact that the poster is even considering this a possibility of being true suggests the hit rate is probably quite high. a) Ignore anyone calling on a mobile number b) ignore Microsoft, BT, Virgin, Amazon, Brit. Gas, TalkTalk, the police, any bank. If they are having a "problem", tell them to sort it out. If they really want to get in touch they will write or email from a pukka address with your name and minimal details on. Also, just put the phone down or, if you can be bothered, just leave it hanging while you get on with your business- just remember to end the call a bit later.

 

[Westcountryman]

Whilst I appreciate what a pain these calls are, I don't believe that it is necessarily sensible just to ignore them and let them go to voicemail. This is for several reasons, and applies to both landline and mobile.

1. My wife has had a lot of health issues, almost coinciding with Covid. Much of the communications with several hospitals and the doctors' surgery has been by phone. Many of the calls have come via the hospital switchboard and show the switchboard number or 'number withheld'. As the calls are unexpected from a number unknown to us (not an unknown number), if we don't answer she may miss something important. They will not, as discussed previously, leave a message for privacy reasons.

2. Several of the calls have been made by ancillary staff working from home, usually from a mobile number.

3. As I reported above, my wife's doctor tried to phone. The call came up as 'international', then a second call from 'international', then she finally answered to 'number withheld'. The doctor was nort amused. Turns out she was working from home and her call were VOIP, then forwarded from some kind of call centre in Bristol. No idea why 'international' twice, then 'number withheld'.

4. Many calls from consultants or hospital are 'number withheld'.

5. We receive a 'number withheld' call which turned out to be an appointment for a Covid vaccination.

So all in all, we will keep on answering all calls, and just put the phone down on the scammers.

 

[najaB]

That is exactly the problem. It is a loophole that needs closing. BT should charge the incoming telco from abroad more than a trivial price. The BT Pay As You Go price for its own customers is 20p/minute. Even though I expect a difference between retail and wholesale rates, there is a very serious disconnect between those two prices for what is the same function in both cases.

With respect, I think you have no idea at all how telcos operate. Suffice it to say, your proposed "solutions" are completely unworkable.

 

[Westcountryman]

My wife has just received a call on her mobile. She's going to be arrested for tax fraud. My god, what am I going to do without her!

 

[Cowley]

My wife has just received a call on her mobile. She's going to be arrested for tax fraud. My god, what am I going to do without her!

Could you let me know which solicitors she uses?
Apparently I’m going to be immediately arrested for National Insurance fraud (according to an automated message from a mobile phone number yesterday), so I’m going to need a good lawyer at some point...

 

[Westcountryman]

Just received a landline call from 0118-904 9938 (note: typed as it shows on my phone, genuine numbers have a dash but after 5 digits and no gap in the rest). The call said 'You have a call waiting, press any number to connect' or very similar. Don't know whether it's a scam or if so what it is. Needless to say, I didn't press a digit. Anyone had this?

EDIT: The number is from Reading. I have no idea why anyone from the Reading area would be calling me late on Saturday afternoon.

 

[najaB]

Just received a landline call from 0118-904 9938 (note: typed as it shows on my phone, genuine numbers have a dash but after 5 digits and no gap in the rest).

That's not necessarily a sign of a scam. Presentation numbers can be formatted differently depending on the originating phone system. Area code - three digits - four digits is typical for a system set to use the North American Number Plan.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Opinion seems divided on 0118-904 9938. Might well be a scam, could however be something to do with Wessex Water. One way or another, unsolicited calls ostensibly from this number do seem to have annoyed a lot of folk.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I’ve had HMRC threatening me with arrest, Amazon wanting me to confirm the purchase of a £1,099 iphone and the police telling me I’m about to be arrested for national insurance fraud. All three, amazingly, can be simply resolved by me “just pressing 1”

 

[pdeaves]

the police telling me I’m about to be arrested

Hmmm, how often would the police phone up like that on a genuine case? "Hello suspect. We're on to you. This is your 'fair warning' 15 minute head start. Run now and we're unlikely to catch up". Obviously preying on the gullible but, really...?

 

[DelW]

Opinion seems divided on 0118-904 9938. Might well be a scam, could however be something to do with Wessex Water. One way or another, unsolicited calls ostensibly from this number do seem to have annoyed a lot of folk.

It would be odd for Wessex Water to be calling from a Reading number, since Reading is in the middle of Thames Water's area, they have a large office there.

Not really surprising since the Thames runs right through the middle of town

 

[Spamcan81]

Many scam calls spoof the number that displays on your phone so blocking will have no effect. I'm amazed how many "energy companies" have their HQ in Armagh.

 

[Typhoon]

It would be odd for Wessex Water to be calling from a Reading number, since Reading is in the middle of Thames Water's area, they have a large office there.

Not really surprising since the Thames runs right through the middle of town

Even more surprising is that those who have checked up on this number, presumably because they have had a call, are from London, Cambridge, Manchester, Bournemouth, Swindon and Birmingham (according to one website). Some might be Wessex Water customers, others definitely are not. Some report that the caller claimed to be from Marks and Spencer.

Wessex Water seem to use 0345 or 01225 numbers. Potential scammers would want some sort of credible number, and an 0118 number (not an obvious area) is as good as any to spoof, particularly if their UK geography is fairly lousy.