A quick poll about taking the vaccine.

[kez19]

I wouldn’t call it encouraging if my livelihood is under threat if I don’t take it but that’s a topic for another thread.

I feel I’m entitled to my freedom of choice, something which I feel we have forgotten in the last year, it shouldn’t bother anyone if I don’t choose to take the vaccine, I’m not bothered if others feel the need to take it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2021 ==



The only thing that is clear with England’s exit strategy is the fact that furlough has been extended to September....this reminds me of October when the tiers were introduced and furlough then was extended to April, next thing you know we’re in a 2nd Lockdown in November, London is put in tier 4 And lockdown 3 begins, but I shall remain optimistic

I’m the same but I’m more apprehensive about it all, I’ll gladly be proved wrong.

 

[Huntergreed]

My opinion on this is thus:

I do not believe it is acceptable, on a medical, ethical or political level, to mandate vaccines or introduce a domestic “vaccine passport” to access essential (or indeed non-essential) services within a country. This is state-sanctioned coercion and it is ethically and morally wrong on so many levels.

That being said, I would strongly and emphatically encourage anyone who is sitting on the fence or indeed skeptical about this vaccine to really consider their reasons and justification for this. This is a very safe vaccine that has been in the works for years, 1/3 of the country has now had it and there’s been little to no issues whatsoever, and it could potentially save your life if you happen to be one of the few unlucky ones who react severely to COVID.

Not only that, but having the vaccine potentially saves the lives of others too and it is clearly the way out of this pandemic. Every dose rejected is a dose further away from freedom.

Whilst I do hold these (strong!) beliefs, at the same time I absolutely stand by and support anyone who genuinely doesn’t, for any personal, ethical or cultural reason, wish to be vaccinated.

It is also important to remember (and I aim this to people who say that not taking the jab will keep us in lockdown) that lockdown is a political choice (and a wrong one at that!) and not a choice made by the virus itself.

 

[NorthKent1989]

You are of course entitled to your opinion and to refuse a medical intervention, and I would support you if you were denied a job because of your choice.

Thank you, and I would support you or anyone of their choice, it’s something I’ll always advocate for, hopefully it won’t get to that point though, I’m fairly confident that by 2022 we can put this traumatic chapter behind us (I’m not going to say this year because I don’t want to get anyone’s hopes up!)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2021 ==

My opinion on this is thus:

I do not believe it is acceptable, on a medical, ethical or political level, to mandate vaccines or introduce a domestic “vaccine passport” to access essential (or indeed non-essential) services within a country. This is state-sanctioned coercion and it is ethically and morally wrong on so many levels.

That being said, I would strongly and emphatically encourage anyone who is sitting on the fence or indeed skeptical about this vaccine to really consider their reasons and justification for this. This is a very safe vaccine that has been in the works for years, 1/3 of the country has now had it and there’s been little to no issues whatsoever, and it could potentially save your life if you happen to be one of the few unlucky ones who react severely to COVID.

Not only that, but having the vaccine potentially saves the lives of others too and it is clearly the way out of this pandemic. Every dose rejected is a dose further away from freedom.

Whilst I do hold these (strong!) beliefs, at the same time I absolutely stand by and support anyone who genuinely doesn’t, for any personal, ethical or cultural reason, wish to be vaccinated.

I personally will continue to keep safe away from vulnerable people, I shan’t be selfish like that, and I plan on being realistic and not have a “normal life” until next year, by then enough people will be vaccinated.

I hope that others who don’t want the vaccine will follow this as well I believe we can get through this if we don’t rush things

 

[kez19]

I just done a quick google search - curiousity

Pfizer's CEO hasn't gotten his Covid vaccine yet, saying he doesn't want to cut in line

"This is a vaccine that was developed without cutting corners from a company with 171 years of credentials," Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said.

www.cnbc.com

While Bourla’s company developed the vaccine, he is not a frontline health-care worker himself. He said he’s also 59 and in relatively good health, so it’s not entirely appropriate for him to receive the vaccine before other people who need it more. If he was vaccinated on camera, he said it might help increase the public’s willingness to receive it, citing Pfizer’s internal research. But he emphasized that “none of the executives and board members will cut the line.”

Bourla also urged Americans to “trust science” and encouraged people to get vaccinated when appropriate, based on their age and occupation.

59 in good health but CEO of Pfizer doesn't want to jump the queue ... OK personal choice but on the other why not since they developed it (if you to ask the question)

then:

No need for vaccines, Covid effectively over: Ex-Pfizer VP

Covid Vaccine: While pharmaceutical major Pfizer had made headlines on the release of their Covid-19 vaccine, its former Vice President and Chief Scientist has said that there is no need for any vaccines to bring the pandemic to an end.

health.economictimes.indiatimes.com

regardless opinion of Yeadon:

"You do not vaccinate people who aren't at risk from the disease. You also don't set about planning to vaccinate millions of fit and healthy people with a vaccine that hasn't been extensively tested on human subjects," Yeadon said.


His comments come at the end of a comprehensive criticism of the Scientific Advisor Group for Emergencies (SAGE), a government agency of the UK.tasked with advising the central government in emergencies.

SAGE has played a predominant role in determining public lockdown policies in the UK, including those recently implemented, as a response to the Covid-19 virus, according to lifesitenews.com.

Yeadon also highlights fundamental errors by SAGE in their presuppositions which cause their overall conclusions to go radically awry leading to the "torturing the population for the last seven months or so."

SAGE says everyone was susceptible and only seven have been infected. I think this is literally unbelievable. They have ignored all precedent in the field of immunological memory against respiratory viruses," he said.

"They have either not seen or disregarded excellent quality work from numerous, world-leading clinical immunologists which show that around 30 per cent of the population had prior immunity," Yeadon added.

Last Friday, Pfizer had announced it is seeking emergency approval from US regulators for its Covid-19 vaccine, which has shown 95 percent efficacy in a totality of two data sets released in the last 10 days.

just a quick search I have done but I am not here to tell people what to do as I say its personal choice.

 

[NorthKent1989]

I’m the same but I’m more apprehensive about it all, I’ll gladly be proved wrong.

Yes me too, I long to be proved wrong about a lot of this

 

[bramling]

There is an altruistic element lacking from one or two of the responses here. It's their right but it's pretty disappointing.

To be honest, I can see why some people are getting increasingly pee’d off with the virtue signalling. We’ve seen so much of it right through this, not least over masks.

I can well see why someone might say “to hell with it, I’m low risk, I don’t want to be a part of this - let those who want the vaccine have it”.

This isn’t really the rationale for my own slight reluctance towards the vaccines, but I can understand why for some it might be. I for one have got extremely sick of the unpleasantness surrounding masks - if people aren’t happy that someone hasn’t got a mask on them keep a distance, it’s quite simple.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2021 ==

My opinion on this is thus:

I do not believe it is acceptable, on a medical, ethical or political level, to mandate vaccines or introduce a domestic “vaccine passport” to access essential (or indeed non-essential) services within a country. This is state-sanctioned coercion and it is ethically and morally wrong on so many levels.

That being said, I would strongly and emphatically encourage anyone who is sitting on the fence or indeed skeptical about this vaccine to really consider their reasons and justification for this. This is a very safe vaccine that has been in the works for years, 1/3 of the country has now had it and there’s been little to no issues whatsoever, and it could potentially save your life if you happen to be one of the few unlucky ones who react severely to COVID.

Not only that, but having the vaccine potentially saves the lives of others too and it is clearly the way out of this pandemic. Every dose rejected is a dose further away from freedom.

Whilst I do hold these (strong!) beliefs, at the same time I absolutely stand by and support anyone who genuinely doesn’t, for any personal, ethical or cultural reason, wish to be vaccinated.

It is also important to remember (and I aim this to people who say that not taking the jab will keep us in lockdown) that lockdown is a political choice (and a wrong one at that!) and not a choice made by the virus itself.

One way or other, whatever view one takes over the vaccines, we really need to get away from this notion that people who don’t want the vaccine are causing lockdown to last longer. They really aren’t, the only person who is making lockdown last longer is Boris Johnson.

It is, of course, convenient to blame the population for everything, the more that can be successfully achieved the more it salvages Johnson’s reputation.

 

[WelshBluebird]

So how can we be sure? No one knows what the future holds do they?

I be surprised if we get normal then out of the blue expect to be thrown back into lockdown due to variants etc

I don’t follow any conspiracies at all but I do question everything.

As far as I read on here is you are not allowed to think outside the box to be labelled a theorist really? I didn’t realise society was as judgmental but it’s opened my eyes

A return to normal does that include an app or a pass to say I have been vaccinated? Why do we need something like that? You don’t need this if you had a cold or flu so why do we need it for Covid? (look at it another way and question everything than what the media say). I understand you need vaccinated for going to certain countries (that’s fine) but why would I need something like this if I am travelling within the UK to then entitle me to go to places or not? See how it’s not far fetched but yet it’s something out of China but heck let’s see what happens next and then see who needs to apologise (this is not aimed at you in case) but I do believe there is some truth in all this but for me I’ll let people believe what they want I judge no one here (past that).

I mean it's bloody obvious we will go back to normal. If nothing else people won't accept anything else in the longer term.

Sure things like tests or showing you are vaccinated may be a thing in the short term, but it's pretty clear that is a relatively short term thing.

And calling something a conspiracy theory is not judgemental when that is what it is. There is literally zero evidence to suggest we won't go back to normal. None. We are not China (and yes I'm not naive enough to think we couldn't eventually become China, but that would require a much longer and darker road than what we've even been on this year). Anyone seriously suggesting we won't eventually go back to normal is barking up the wrong tree.

As for comparisons with flu, covid isn't flu. When was the last time flu killed as many people has covid has?

People shouldn't be labelling vaccine hesitant people as conspiracy theorists

I was saying that the belief that we will never go back to normal is a conspiracy theory. Surely saying that isn't that controversial? Being a hesitant to a vaccine is not a conspiracy theory, but claiming we will never never back to normal is one.

I research too but how many on this forum that people want to call "theorists" actually aren't but do their research but be called out? I thought that their was two sides to everything? Seems more as if you question things thats what the first thought people say but yet going back to above you must take the vaccine for the greater good.

Someone saying that they have done their own "research" whilst ignoring the advice from the experts in that field is a common thing that comes from conspiracy theorists. They often believe they have been "enlightened" by their "research" and somehow the rest of us are missing it.

Now I'm not saying you are that. But there's literally no evidence to suggest we won't go back to normal. None. So a suggestion we won't go back to normal is a conspiracy theory.

 

[nlogax]

To be honest, I can see why some people are getting increasingly pee’d off with the virtue signalling. We’ve seen so much of it right through this, not least over masks.

I said altruism, not virtue signalling.

I can well see why someone might say “to hell with it, I’m low risk, I don’t want to be a part of this - let those who want the vaccine have it”.

There's more than enough vaccine for everyone. This is a non-argument.

 

[dan5324]

My opinion on this is thus:

I do not believe it is acceptable, on a medical, ethical or political level, to mandate vaccines or introduce a domestic “vaccine passport” to access essential (or indeed non-essential) services within a country. This is state-sanctioned coercion and it is ethically and morally wrong on so many levels.

That being said, I would strongly and emphatically encourage anyone who is sitting on the fence or indeed skeptical about this vaccine to really consider their reasons and justification for this. This is a very safe vaccine that has been in the works for years, 1/3 of the country has now had it and there’s been little to no issues whatsoever, and it could potentially save your life if you happen to be one of the few unlucky ones who react severely to COVID.

Not only that, but having the vaccine potentially saves the lives of others too and it is clearly the way out of this pandemic. Every dose rejected is a dose further away from freedom.

Whilst I do hold these (strong!) beliefs, at the same time I absolutely stand by and support anyone who genuinely doesn’t, for any personal, ethical or cultural reason, wish to be vaccinated.

It is also important to remember (and I aim this to people who say that not taking the jab will keep us in lockdown) that lockdown is a political choice (and a wrong one at that!) and not a choice made by the virus itself.

Possibly the the most well balanced, sensible reply on here. Kudos to you sir/madam.

 

[yorkie]

As for comparisons with flu, covid isn't flu. When was the last time flu killed as many people has covid has?

Indeed no comparison; if it was an influenza pandemic things would be far worse and the vaccines far less effective. All the more reason to take the vaccine!

But I think any such comparisons are best made in a new thread, but we need to be careful not to compare apples with pears. To compare a virus to which we have very good immunity as a population to another virus to which about half the population has excellent immunity against but the other half has very little is not an easy comparison to make. I'll be happy to post more on the subject but this isn't the thread for it.

I was saying that the belief that we will never go back to normal is a conspiracy theory.

Not sure who this is addressed to but for the avoidance of doubt, I wasn't accusing anyone.

Someone saying that they have done their own "research" whilst ignoring the advice from the experts in that field is a common thing that comes from conspiracy theorists. They often believe they have been "enlightened" by their "research" and somehow the rest of us are missing it.

Very true but this is also done by people on the other side of the extreme too!

Now I'm not saying you are that. But here's literally no evidence to suggest we won't go back to normal. None. So a suggestion we won't go back to normal is a conspiracy theory.

It was suggested by others, for example:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...taking-the-vaccine.214826/page-4#post-5031023

But there is no prospect of such an eventuality in my opinion.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2021 ==

Possibly the the most well balanced, sensible reply on here. Kudos to you sir/madam.

Agreed; a superb response from @Huntergreed

 

[Richard Scott]

As for comparisons with flu, covid isn't flu. When was the last time flu killed as many people has covid has?

I'm sure someone posted a list of deaths for each month going back around 25 years and answer to your question was either January 1999 or 2000.

 

[kez19]

I mean it's bloody obvious we will go back to normal. If nothing else people won't accept anything else in the longer term.

Sure things like tests or showing you are vaccinated may be a thing in the short term, but it's pretty clear that is a relatively short term thing.

And calling something a conspiracy theory is not judgemental when that is what it is. There is literally zero evidence to suggest we won't go back to normal. None. We are not China (and yes I'm not naive enough to think we couldn't eventually become China, but that would require a much longer and darker road than what we've even been on this year). Anyone seriously suggesting we won't eventually go back to normal is barking up the wrong tree.

As for comparisons with flu, covid isn't flu. When was the last time flu killed as many people has covid has?



I was saying that the belief that we will never go back to normal is a conspiracy theory. Surely saying that isn't that controversial? Being a hesitant to a vaccine is not a conspiracy theory, but claiming we will never never back to normal is one.



Someone saying that they have done their own "research" whilst ignoring the advice from the experts in that field is a common thing that comes from conspiracy theorists. They often believe they have been "enlightened" by their "research" and somehow the rest of us are missing it.

Now I'm not saying you are that. But there's literally no evidence to suggest we won't go back to normal. None. So a suggestion we won't go back to normal is a conspiracy theory.

You believe we will go back to normal? Ok I want the normal of no restrictions but that seems still far off to me.

If they keep their position on dates then on that I’ll believe that for me in Scotland however Sturgeon to me doesn’t have a clue in exit or direction we are going other than either be a few weeks behind.

I haven’t heard either of being able to travel out with area let alone being able to go down to England. I find it that there is more uncertainty I have in Scotland than England and it helps nothing.

So how can you say that not going back to normal is a conspiracy? I haven’t read it anywhere either, I just question things more than follow what our so called trusted media.

Regarding the whole research and better listening to experts, that’s all well and good but on the other who is to say they have agendas? It’s like the people of SAGE and the experts around that, if say Boris is announcing some part of normal they’ll whine to media then claim cases will rise and to hunker down more. It’s the like of SAGE are the ones wanting more lockdown or move goalposts (again goes back to getting normal back), governments disband SAGE and the likes of Devi then I’ll gladly be happy but until the governments are in contact with SAGE my normal ain’t returning.

 

[Annetts key]

The various experts in their field (medical, scientific etc) give their recommendations based on a combination of known facts, mathematical and computer modelling and professional opinion based on their past experience.

By the nature of their fields, they are likely to recommend a cautious approach to coming out of lockdown.

But it’s the job of the elected politicians to actually make the decisions.

Of course the media and reporters will jump on any story where it appears that the government politicians are ignoring the experts.

 

[Dent]

The various experts in their field (medical, scientific etc) give their recommendations based on a combination of known facts, mathematical and computer modelling and professional opinion based on their past experience.

By the nature of their fields, they are likely to recommend a cautious approach to coming out of lockdown.

But it’s the job of the elected politicians to actually make the decisions.

Of course the media and reporters will jump on any story where it appears that the government politicians are ignoring the experts.

That is what is supposed to happen, but have you seen any evidence of it actually happening?

 

[d9009alycidon]

Going for mine next Monday. Having been involved in the Regulatory process for manufacture of the stuff I am perfectly happy to get it.

 

[RuralRambler]

Eh? You’re talking like the vaccine stops transmission. It doesn’t....

We don't know that. Too early to say. There's no evidence yet that it reduces transmission, but that's not because it doesn't, it's because it too early to have any data showing whether it does or doesn't. Medical/scientific experts expect it to reduce transmission, but like I say, it's too early to confirm that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Mar 2021 ==

That is what is supposed to happen, but have you seen any evidence of it actually happening?

Last Summer, the scientific/medical experts were warning against relaxing restrictions too quickly. The govt steamed ahead with opening foreign travel, pubs, restaurants, etc and even encouraged it by their "eat out to spread covid" scheme, reduced VAT on hospitality/leisure etc. After a few weeks, rates started increasing again (even before schools went back). So it's arguable that Govt ignored scientific/medical advice to take it slow!

 

[yorksrob]

We don't know that. Too early to say. There's no evidence yet that it reduces transmission, but that's not because it doesn't, it's because it too early to have any data showing whether it does or doesn't. Medical/scientific experts expect it to reduce transmission, but like I say, it's too early to confirm that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Mar 2021 ==


Last Summer, the scientific/medical experts were warning against relaxing restrictions too quickly. The govt steamed ahead with opening foreign travel, pubs, restaurants, etc and even encouraged it by their "eat out to spread covid" scheme, reduced VAT on hospitality/leisure etc. After a few weeks, rates started increasing again (even before schools went back). So it's arguable that Govt ignored scientific/medical advice to take it slow!

There was no "steaming ahead" about it. We had to wait a long time between outdoor activities, non essential retail and hospitality.

 

[Dent]

Last Summer, the scientific/medical experts were warning against relaxing restrictions too quickly. The govt steamed ahead with opening foreign travel, pubs, restaurants, etc and even encouraged it by their "eat out to spread covid" scheme, reduced VAT on hospitality/leisure etc. After a few weeks, rates started increasing again (even before schools went back). So it's arguable that Govt ignored scientific/medical advice to take it slow!

"Steamed ahead" is a gross misrepresentation, they did not release anything at all quickly. Also cases did not start increasing "a few weeks" after things opening foreign travel, pubs, restaurants, etc. None of these reopenings actually had any detectable effect on case numbers. Please stop re-writing history.

"eat out to spread covid" was not the name of the scheme, as you know full well. This childish misnaming of things is not helpful to a mature discussion.

 

[kez19]

The various experts in their field (medical, scientific etc) give their recommendations based on a combination of known facts, mathematical and computer modelling and professional opinion based on their past experience.

By the nature of their fields, they are likely to recommend a cautious approach to coming out of lockdown.

But it’s the job of the elected politicians to actually make the decisions.

Of course the media and reporters will jump on any story where it appears that the government politicians are ignoring the experts.

Do they? All I hear from them is quite the opposite, don't open up it'll run riot, hide behind the sofa, close your eyes. go to la la land.

If they were in the real world they would be more open minded and find solutions out of it but of course not - its the same run of the mill rinse/repeat over and over.

As for the media it doesn't surprise me there is not a day goes by we ever hear anything positive out of this again just like those including SAGE its the same old story rinsed out so many times its becoming more ad-nauseum or for better clarification "click bait".

 

[westv]

I'm finding it virtually impossible to get a convenient slot which isn't 40 miles away. Will keep looking on and off and see what turns up.

 

[DB]

"Steamed ahead" is a gross misrepresentation, they did not release anything at all quickly. Also cases did not start increasing "a few weeks" after things opening foreign travel, pubs, restaurants, etc. None of these reopenings actually had any detectable effect on case numbers. Please stop re-writing history.

"eat out to spread covid" was not the name of the scheme, as you know full well. This childish misnaming of things is not helpful to a mature discussion.

Indeed. It was the time of year which led to it increasing again, just as happens with virtually every respiratory virus in a typical north-European climate.

 

[Mag_seven]

I'm finding it virtually impossible to get a convenient slot which isn't 40 miles away. Will keep looking on and off and see what turns up.

I've just booked mine - there was nothing available in my home town at all. I will have to travel to get it but I don't mind doing that because it gets it done!

 

[Tomp94]

I highly doubt I’m the only one who considers that a rather selfish mindset, considering the jab offered to you will do you more good than harm, will contribute to the return of normality and thus preservation of mental wellbeing, and also that we are lucky to have the vaccine in large supply where other countries are unable to access the vaccine due to either lack of finance or poor leadership.

It's not selfish at all.
The return of normality will return tonight if we weren't a nation of bedwetters.
If you want the jab have it, if you don't, don't. If you're at risk of serious illness or death, I'd suggest you take the vaccine to prevent serious illness or death, but if you decide not to then that is your personal decision
The covid vaccine doesn't stop transmission and it doesn't stop you from becoming seriously ill.
If the covid jab actually stopped 99% of the transmission then I'd probably take the jab.

 

[Annetts key]

The covid vaccine doesn't stop transmission and it doesn't stop you from becoming seriously ill.

I don’t believe that what you say is factual. Can you please point me to your source of information on this.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The covid vaccine doesn't stop transmission and it doesn't stop you from becoming seriously ill.

The science shows otherwise. I don’t believe you know more than the science.

 

[Yew]

And calling something a conspiracy theory is not judgemental when that is what it is. There is literally zero evidence to suggest we won't go back to normal. None.

Didn't Chris Witty say that he expects restrictions to last for a 'very long time'?

 

[NorthKent1989]

To be honest, I can see why some people are getting increasingly pee’d off with the virtue signalling. We’ve seen so much of it right through this, not least over masks.

I can well see why someone might say “to hell with it, I’m low risk, I don’t want to be a part of this - let those who want the vaccine have it”.

This isn’t really the rationale for my own slight reluctance towards the vaccines, but I can understand why for some it might be. I for one have got extremely sick of the unpleasantness surrounding masks - if people aren’t happy that someone hasn’t got a mask on them keep a distance, it’s quite simple.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2021 ==



One way or other, whatever view one takes over the vaccines, we really need to get away from this notion that people who don’t want the vaccine are causing lockdown to last longer. They really aren’t, the only person who is making lockdown last longer is Boris Johnson.

It is, of course, convenient to blame the population for everything, the more that can be successfully achieved the more it salvages Johnson’s reputation.

Spot on.

We the public have been the governments scapegoat from the beginning.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Had my first one today, had to travel seven miles - a small price to pay - as the local site is only doing category 6, those 16 to 65 with clinical reasons which have included two neighbours and my sister-in law. Second jab booked towards the end of May.

 

[yorkie]

The covid vaccine doesn't stop transmission and it doesn't stop you from becoming seriously ill.
If the covid jab actually stopped 99% of the transmission then I'd probably take the jab.

it stops a lot of transmission but perhaps not 99%

it almost completely stops serious illness.

as with any virus and any vaccine there will always be exceptions

 

[Western Sunset]

Had the Pfizer jab a few weeks ago. No problems - didn't feel a thing and the whole operation was very slick.