A question about travelling with a bicycle and missing the last train home

[jednick]

This got me thinking, and wondering what would happen:

Yesterday, I went on a day trip to from Worcester to London (Euston), via a change at Birmingham New Street. I took my bike with me up to Birmingham but then I decided not to take it all the way to London, so I locked my bike up in the bike racks at New Street station.

[I didn't want to lock the bike up in Worcester, as I was departing from a different Worcester station that I would be returning to. I guessed that the train returning back from Euston to Birmingham would be really busy and the bike would cause problems, so leaving it at Birmingham all day was ideal.]

Returning back from London in in the evening, I had an advance purchase ticket (“London Euston to Worcester stations”). I was booked on the 20.13 from Euston to Birmingham New Street, giving me a 40 to 45 minute wait at Birmingham and then I would get the last train of the day back to Worcester, departing at 23.00. All went to plan, the train arrived into Birmingham approximately 22.15 and I had loads of time to go to the bike racks at New Street and retrieve my bike.

But what if my train from Euston had arrived into Birmingham late, say at 22.55? I’d have 5 minutes before the last train of the day back to Worcester departed. I know 5 minutes in a less than the minimum connection time at New Street, but I’m reasonably sure if I walked swiftly I could make it.

But what about my bike that’s locked up in the bike racks at New Street? In 5 minutes I wouldn’t have time to retrieve it, so what would happen?

1…I retrieve my bike, miss my last train home and am forced to bike almost 30 miles home overnight (Not recommended!).

2…I retrieve my bike and miss my last train home. I go to see station staff and say although it was possible to rush and catch the last train home, I had to get my bike and therefore missed the last train home. They have to provide a taxi for me and the bike to get home.

3…I leave the bike locked up at New Street and rush to get the last train home. Then I go back up to Birmingham the next day to get my bike, at my own expense.

4…I leave the bike locked up at New Street and rush to get the last train home. I go back up to Birmingham the next day to get my bike but I don’t have to pay for the journey. (Either by explaining the situation to ticket office staff at Worcester, or being able to apply for a refund).

 

[telstarbox]

I think unfortunately option 3 - the bike racks are provided as a convenience but don't form part of the contract for travel.

 

[jednick]

I think unfortunately option 3 - the bike racks are provided as a convenience but don't form part of the contract for travel.

I just thought: the minimum connection time at New Street is 12 minutes.

Could I argue the case that in this instance I only had 5 minutes connection time because of the lateness of my arrival into Birmingham, and that's in the contract of travel as not being enough time?

So, I arrive into New Street with 5 minutes to spare but then I go and retrieve my bike, and then miss the last train home by a few minutes.

I then go to railway staff and simply say, "I missed my last train home because the train was late. I had only 5 minutes connection time instead of the required minimum of 12 so therefore I missed my last train home".

[Yes, I know in theory I could rush and make it in 5 minutes. But if I were infirm or didn't know the layout of New Street station, 5 minutes wouldn't be enough time].

 

[yorkie]

I just thought: the minimum connection time at New Street is 12 minutes.

Could I argue the case that in this instance I only had 5 minutes connection time because of the lateness of my arrival into Birmingham, and that's in the contract of travel as not being enough time?

Yes, absolutely.

 

[jednick]

Yes, absolutely.

Thanks. Would it be irrelevant that I had taken a few minutes to retrieve my bike? The fact would be the train arrived late into Birmingham giving me just a 5 minute connection time and that would be provable.

They couldn't for instance say, "Well, you really could have made the last train home if had rushed and not gone to retrieve your bike" ?

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Option 1 - it's good for the soul.

I contrived to miss the last train from Preston to Liverpool a couple of years ago. After wasting a couple of hours trying and failing to find a hotel room there, I gritted my teeth, mounted the (malfunctioning) bike and rode off into the headwind that was with me all the way to Liverpool, finally arriving at my digs at around 4.30am...

 

[jednick]

I think if I were to have approximately a 10 minute connection time at New Street I would be have just enough time to be able to retrieve my bike and make the last train home.

Does this mean in any instance I’d be ok?

So, train arrives late but with 12+ minutes to spare: I have enough time to retrieve my bike, if I’m quick.

Train arrives with less than 12 minutes to spare: I retrieve my bike and if I miss the last train home they’ll have to provide a taxi for me and the bike as it’s provable I wasn’t given enough connection time.

And that's another thing: do they have to get me and the bike back home in a taxi, or just me and not necessarily the bike?

 

[jednick]

Option 1 - it's good for the soul.

I contrived to miss the last train from Preston to Liverpool a couple of years ago. After wasting a couple of hours trying and failing to find a hotel room there, I gritted my teeth, mounted the (malfunctioning) bike and rode off into the headwind that was with me all the way to Liverpool, finally arriving at my digs at around 4.30am...

It's a long way to cycle, but it's quicker than walking! And at least you got home earlier that having to wait in Preston all night for the first train back to Liverpool in the morning.

 

[Bromley boy]

Yes, absolutely.

Thanks. Would it be irrelevant that I had taken a few minutes to retrieve my bike? The fact would be the train arrived late into Birmingham giving me just a 5 minute connection time and that would be provable.

They couldn't for instance say, "Well you really could have made the last train home if had rushed and not gone to retrieve your bike" ?

But having less than the minimum connection time and missing the train would surely only mean you’d be entitled to a cab home (in the same way as if you missed it due difficulty walking etc.)

I doubt they would be able to get you a cab which would be willing or able to carry a bike (is there such a thing?), and I wouldn’t fancy your chances arguing the toss with either the TOC staff or a cab company in the small hours.

Probably best to build a bigger contingency into your plans to prevent the issue arising in the first place.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

It's a long way to cycle, but it's quicker than walking! And at least you got home earlier that having to wait in Preston all night for the first train back to Liverpool in the morning.

That was my thinking entirely. After failing to get a hotel room, I sat down on a park bench for a while before thinking: "I might as well be freezing my a**e off on the bike as sitting here doing the same. At least it will be get me a couple of hours in my bed..."

 

[AlterEgo]

A train operator is not contractually bound to provide alternative transport to convey a bike.

 

[robbeech]

option 2 applies here by default. If your train is delayed and you are left with less than the minimum connection time and you miss your next train because of it then they have to get YOU home (but not necessarily the bike)
However, if you ARE left with the minimum connection time and you collecting your bike forces you to miss your train then option 1 comes into play.
If you know you are going to have limited time to make your connection you could always speak to the guard and they may give you a ticket to travel to collect your bike the following day but it’s very unlikely. Of course this raises the question ‘what did you need the bike for?’ If you left it at Birmingham and would have been able to leave it at Birmingham.

To summarise, you should be provided alternative transport if the minimum connection time is fouled due to late running and you miss a train. However you cannot add extra time to the published minimum connection time to collect a bike, nor are they obliged to find alternative transport for the bike (edited for clarity after a reply).

 

[Bromley boy]

To summarise, you should be provided alternative transport if the minimum connection time is fouled due to late running and you miss a train. However you cannot add extra time to the published minimum connection time to collect a bike.

But not alternative transport capable of conveying a bike.

 

[jednick]

But having less than the minimum connection time and missing the train would surely only mean you’d be entitled to a cab home (in the same way as if you missed it due difficulty walking etc.)

I doubt they would be able to get you a cab which would be willing or able to carry a bike (is there such a thing?), and I wouldn’t fancy your chances arguing the toss with either the TOC staff or a cab company in the small hours.

Probably best to build a bigger contingency into your plans to prevent the issue arising in the first place.

I'd think there are taxis that could accommodate a bike. Maybe a larger type of taxi that could carry a wheelchair. But I agree, the railway staff might say that my bike isn't included in the contract to travel.

 

[jednick]

option 2 applies here by default. If your train is delayed and you are left with less than the minimum connection time and you miss your next train because of it then they have to get YOU home (but not necessarily the bike)
However, if you ARE left with the minimum connection time and you collecting your bike forces you to miss your train then option 1 comes into play.
If you know you are going to have limited time to make your connection you could always speak to the guard and they may give you a ticket to travel to collect your bike the following day but it’s very unlikely. Of course this raises the question ‘what did you need the bike for?’ If you left it at Birmingham and would have been able to leave it at Birmingham.

To summarise, you should be provided alternative transport if the minimum connection time is fouled due to late running and you miss a train. However you cannot add extra time to the published minimum connection time to collect a bike, nor are they obliged to find alternative transport for the bike (edited for clarity after a reply).

I needed the bike because I have to travel to my nearest train station in Worcester. I can't drive and it's too far to walk.

I got my first train of the day from Worcester Foregate Street station. I didn't want to lock my bike up there as I was returning to Worcester Shrub Hill station. Yes, I could have walked from Shrub Hill back to Foregate Street to collect the bike at the end of the day, but this would take me 15 minutes and I don't really want to be walking through the city centre at midnight.

Previously, I took the bike all the way with me and locked it up at Euston station. But I guessed the train would be really busy returning back from Euston, and indeed it was. So, leaving it at Birmingham was the answer.

 

[robbeech]

I assumed this would be the case. My point (that I didn’t put across very well) was that options 3 and 4 don’t work for you because you needed to use the bike at your destination.

 

[jednick]

I assumed this would be the case. My point (that I didn’t put across very well) was that options 3 and 4 don’t work for you because you needed to use the bike at your destination.

Yes I need it. I think if they offered me a taxi home but minus the bike, then I'd seriously consider waiting 7 hours for the first train of the day in the morning back to Worcester. Far from ideal, I know. I don't think I'd want to bike 30 miles overnight.

But otherwise I'd have to pay a huge amount to get to my house from Worcester Shrub Hill by taxi [I'm guessing the taxi ride from Birmingham would be back to Worcester Shrub Hill station and they wouldn't be obligated to take me back to my house itself].

Or, I'd have to walk for miles in the middle of the night to get home.

 

[robbeech]

That would be at the discretion of the TOC (and the taxi driver). If they had to drive past your house (or there abouts) to get to the station then it’s likely they’d drop you off at home. If it was 4 miles further then they likely wouldn’t unless they felt it would be unsafe for you.

Additionally unless you have a flexible ticket that covers the next day then if a TOC were to provide a taxi but you declined it then you’d likely be made to purchase a new ticket the next day. And likely an expensive anytime one too which might end up costing more than other options.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Option 1b: catch the 23.13 to Redditch and cycle from there. Saves you about 15 miles and the roads are quieter! (You'd need good lights for the lanes though...)

 

[jednick]

Option 1b: catch the 23.13 to Redditch and cycle from there. Saves you about 15 miles and the roads are quieter! (You'd need good lights for the lanes though...)

I thought about something similar: Get that train but I get off at Barnt Green. It's mostly downhill to Worcester from there.

 

[Kanrakuq]

I don't think I'd want to bike 30 miles overnight.

As someone who cycle-commutes from time-to-time, which means the dark, snow, etc., just wondering why? I get that it's probably not much fun, but neither is seven hours on a bench, and depending on your bike it should be an average speed of say 14-20 mph ... 90 minutes maybe? Then you can sleep it off. Doesn't seem that bad compared to seven hours sitting on an empty train station platform.

 

[jednick]

As someone who cycle-commutes from time-to-time, which means the dark, snow, etc., just wondering why? I get that it's probably not much fun, but neither is seven hours on a bench, and depending on your bike it should be an average speed of say 14-20 mph ... 90 minutes maybe? Then you can sleep it off. Doesn't seem that bad compared to seven hours sitting on an empty train station platform.

I am not that young or fit. It would take me about 3 hours.

 

[ejstubbs]

I needed the bike because I have to travel to my nearest train station in Worcester. I can't drive and it's too far to walk.

I got my first train of the day from Worcester Foregate Street station. I didn't want to lock my bike up there as I was returning to Worcester Shrub Hill station. Yes, I could have walked from Shrub Hill back to Foregate Street to collect the bike at the end of the day, but this would take me 15 minutes and I don't really want to be walking through the city centre at midnight.

With the undeniable benefit of hindsight, could you have locked up your bike at Shrub Hill and walked to Foregate Street on your outward journey? That would have avoided the midnight walk on the return journey. It also has the advantage that, if your return rail journey is disrupted, the bike will be where you need it to be when the railway fulfils its obligation to get you back to Shrub Hill.

(TBH I'm struggling to understand the logic in taking a bike on the train all the way to Euston just to leave it parked there. Unless you were heading to a completely different destination afterwards, of course, rather than just a different station in the same city.)

 

[jednick]

With the undeniable benefit of hindsight, could you have locked up your bike at Shrub Hill and walked to Foregate Street on your outward journey? That would have avoided the midnight walk on the return journey. It also has the advantage that, if your return rail journey is disrupted, the bike will be where you need it to be when the railway fulfils its obligation to get you back to Shrub Hill.

(TBH I'm struggling to understand the logic in taking a bike on the train all the way to Euston just to leave it parked there. Unless you were heading to a completely different destination afterwards, of course, rather than just a different station in the same city.)

Good idea!

 

[maniacmartin]

--deleted--

 

[John R]

The OP did, and left around 45 mins connection time, and everything was fine. It was a hypothetical question. (Note this originally responded to a post which has subsequently been deleted.)

 

[tsr]

The minimum connection time is for connecting between two trains. My opinion is that if you wanted to collect your bike, you should have booked an itinerary that allowed time to collect the bike in addition to the 12 minutes.

The OP said they had 40-45 minutes at New Street in their itinerary for their journey home. This is more than enough time to collect a bike at any station I can think of!

 

[DanTrain]

What about if the line to Birmingham had been closed and you’d been forced to divert via Swindon or Bristol? Surely then you’re required to pick the bike uo yourself, and you’ve been conveyed to your final destination.

I think the main problem is having left your bike halfway along your journey, it’s an unusual thing to do, and I don’t see why a toc would make allowances for that, as it’s neither usual or advised.

As pointed out above, the min. connection time issue is valid, but again having obtained a bike in that time is unusual.

A question though: had you taken the bike to London and missed your connection, surely the toc would then have to get you and the bike home, or pay for storage at NS and tickets to pick it up?

 

[yorkie]

I agree it is prudent to allow plenty of additional time, but if the minimum connection time was allowed for and the train was delayed, resulting in the minimum connection time no longer being made, then you should* be entitled to be treated as having legitimately missed the connection.

According to informed sources, at least some TOCs use systems that compare the actual interchange times to the minimum interchange times, and validates claims accordingly.

So if you take say 10 minutes to change trains at a station where the minimum interchange is 12 minutes, then it might be difficult for a train company to argue that you are acting unreasonably.

* Questions might be asked if your trains arrive/depart from adjacent platforms and this fact is discovered; in such cases it might arguably be seen as unreasonable for the passenger to go up to the concourse, but this is of course highly subjective!

 

[yorkie]

A question though: had you taken the bike to London and missed your connection, surely the toc would then have to get you and the bike home, or pay for storage at NS and tickets to pick it up?

If a EUS to BHM reservation was held and the bike conveyed accordingly then I agree appropriate provisions would need to be made.