A question about 175s

[backontrack]

I was just wondering if anyone on the boards has any pictures of Class 175s in operation for Wales & Borders, who some of the units before ATW, or for First TransPennine Express, who had some units sub-leased for work on their north-west route until December 2006. On the internet I can only find photos of FNW and ATW units.

Also, First North Western used to run services from London Euston to Manchester Airport and Rochdale between 1997 and 1999. I was wondering which stock was used on these services.

 

[SeanG]

FNW used 322s between MIA and EUS and 158s between Rochdale & Euston

 

[Polarbear]

FNW used 322s between MIA and EUS and 158s between Rochdale & Euston

With the occasional 309 turning up on the Airport - London services too!

 

[Philip]

175110 at Lostock in summer 2006, wearing the short-lived ATW 175 'ghost' livery. http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/1/5/3/7153.1192708800.jpg

'110 again; this time at Chorley with the 07:32 Man Airport to Windermere on 17th June 06. http://www.martynhilbert.railpic.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/IMG_0006_28800x49829.jpg

Here is 175111 at Preston in 2006, wearing the FNW barbie livery. http://www.traintesting.com/images/175111 Preston 25-5-06.jpg

(None of these pictures are my own work)

 

[Masbroughlad]

One of the comfiest, best dmus made.

 

[ValleyLines142]

One of the comfiest, best dmus made.

Totally agree! I use them regularly on the Cardiff to Manchester routes. Brilliant units and a shame there's only 27 of them!

 

[CJ]

(neither were taken by me, just found via Flickr and YouTube ):

- Class 158 North Western Trains (First North Western) Livery at Manchester Victoria operating the London Euston - Rochdale service (1998): https://www.flickr.com/photos/metromadme/8871248390/

- Class 322 North Western Trains (First North Western) Livery arriving and departing at Manchester Airport for London Euston service (1999): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JGoM2VHkDg

As for the Class 175s, both Wales & Borders and First North Western shared them until around 2004/2005 when Transpennine Express took over the Barrow/Windermere and then eventually Blackpool North services. It retained the Barbie Livery until 2006/2007 when they were transferred back to the Arriva Trains Wales once the Class 185s took over the North West Transpennine services.

Totally agree! I use them regularly on the Cardiff to Manchester routes. Brilliant units and a shame there's only 27 of them!

I agree too! I travel on them regularly between Manchester and Crewe and i find them really relaxing.

 

[backontrack]

Thank you all for your contributions. I'm surprised I couldn't find the pictures anywhere!

I'm half surprised (maybe not that much) that the 175s weren't re-vinyled like this 158:

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/181/480438793_dc0106333f_m.jpg

Especially with the ATW ones, I'm a bit surprised. But since some are from FNW, I see why they weren't.

I personally have never ridden on a 175, although I'd like to, so I can see how they are for myself.

 

[TDK]

One of the comfiest, best dmus made.

And most likely the best maintained

 

[317666]

Totally agree that 175s are probably one of the best DMUs ever made (from a passenger's point of view anyway). It's a shame that there aren't more of them and less 170s, would love to see them on the Stansted - Birmingham trains!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

But since some are from FNW, I see why they weren't.

All of them came from FNW, who specified them and their initial livery.
FNW was the sole operator for 4 years or so until Wales & Borders was invented and the fleet transferred to ATW management.
The whole fleet has always been maintained by Alstom at Chester.
The 180s were ordered by FGW at the same time and share many features.
Despite rebranding into Arriva colours, the 175s still have a FirstGroup lilac dado panel in the saloons.

 

[PHILIPE]

Totally agree that 175s are probably one of the best DMUs ever made (from a passenger's point of view anyway). It's a shame that there aren't more of them and less 170s, would love to see them on the Stansted - Birmingham trains!

Not all the time. At first they were very unreliable and it took almost ten years to sort out the "teething problems" if that's what you'd like to call them.

 

[BurtonM]

Another for them being excellent - any excuse to use one!
My dad thinks that's how trains should be, and calls them 'real' trains (along with 91+Mk4), but he's used to Northern's finest...
I really like that 'ghost' livery too, I haven't seen that before.

 

[Elecman]

they tend to be very cold though as the aircon has a low set temerature that has never been sorted

 

[Parallel]

they tend to be very cold though as the aircon has a low set temerature that has never been sorted

Ha! I was once on one that was going to Carmarthen last summer and the air conditioning had failed in the unit and of course the windows don't open - it was unbearably hot!!

I do generally like them though. I always think that internally, they could do with some brightening up, but the leg room is good, as is the comfort of the seats.

 

[Philip]

They replaced the class 37-hauled passenger services on the North Wales Coast so they were seen as a bit of a let down in character at least for enthusiasts. They were however well-appreciated on the North West routes (when they weren't breaking down) as they replaced the Sprinters. The problem was that TPE would have a mixture of 2-car and 3-car units each day and it wasn't too uncommon to find a 2-car 175 working a busy peak time service out of Manchester, even if the service was booked for a 3-car unit. I know TPE got 11 units a day, anyone know how many were supposed to be 3-coaches?

They are sleek and comfortable units, 158s and 185s probably sound better mind and the latter without doubt have superior acceleration. If you could combine the mechanical side of the 185 with the interior of the 175 you'd have the perfect DMU!

 

[317666]

they tend to be very cold though as the aircon has a low set temerature that has never been sorted

That's one of the reasons I think they're good, the air conditioning is actually a nice cold temperature, rather than being 'vaguely cool' like a lot of other trains!

 

[ValleyLines142]

I do generally like them though. I always think that internally, they could do with some brightening up, but the leg room is good, as is the comfort of the seats.

Indeed so. It would NEVER happen, but I would love to see them replace 158s on the Cardiff to Portsmouth corridor.

 

[Welshman]

Indeed so. It would NEVER happen, but I would love to see them replace 158s on the Cardiff to Portsmouth corridor.

Don't even think about taking these lovely units off the N.Wales Coast line

In all my 60 or so years of railway travelling, they are the most comfortable I've ever used. Seats which actually support you where you need it with ample legroom, and a configuration which means most have a good view out of the windows.

I am always unhappy when I arrive at Manchester Piccadilly and have to get-off one!

 

[al.currie93]

I heard somewhere that the 175s were derived from the 156s (as too were the 458s), does anyone have any more information on that?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I heard somewhere that the 175s were derived from the 156s (as too were the 458s), does anyone have any more information on that?

Built in the same place (Washwood Heath) but I think that's the only link.
Alstom Coradias (which includes Scotrail's 334s as well as 175/180/458/460) are principally a French design, albeit with some significant UK content.
But I think the bodyshell and suspension design is French.

Coradias also operate elsewhere in Europe (France, Germany, Sweden etc), although I'm not sure if they have any commonality with the UK fleets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alstom_Coradia is rather short on technical detail.

The 175s do have an odd tendency to wobble sideways at certain speeds, with the seats/tables moving away from the walls.
The audio PIS used by ATW is still not right, either - too many pointless announcements.

 

[northwichcat]

They replaced the class 37-hauled passenger services on the North Wales Coast so they were seen as a bit of a let down in character at least for enthusiasts. They were however well-appreciated on the North West routes (when they weren't breaking down) as they replaced the Sprinters.

There was a booked daily working for 175s on the Mid-Cheshire line which was the morning service most commuters used. The evening service most commuters used to return home was booked for a 142 (and quite often turned up as a Merseytravel one) so I'm sure the Mid-Cheshire line commuters who experienced that were glad of the 175 booked working and not having to get a 142 in both directions.

There was also a later evening service booked for a 158. Maybe FNW had an agreement with the local employers - work longer hours and get a 158 home instead of a 142?

 

[Philip]

Built in the same place (Washwood Heath) but I think that's the only link.
Alstom Coradias (which includes Scotrail's 334s as well as 175/180/458/460) are principally a French design, albeit with some significant UK content.
But I think the bodyshell and suspension design is French.

Coradias also operate elsewhere in Europe (France, Germany, Sweden etc), although I'm not sure if they have any commonality with the UK fleets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alstom_Coradia is rather short on technical detail.

The 175s do have an odd tendency to wobble sideways at certain speeds, with the seats/tables moving away from the walls.
The audio PIS used by ATW is still not right, either - too many pointless announcements.

I used to quite like the announcements on the 175s; the original announcements which more or less stayed the same barring a few adjustments up until the stopping patterns were re-recorded with a different woman voicing them, think this was done after TPE stopped using them. The original woman's voice is quite distinctive and she can be heard on the FGW 180s. Now the same woman used at ATW stations calls out the stops on the 175s. Also remember the PIS saying "We welcome customers" when they were shared between TOCs. Apparently after ATW took full control of the fleet it wasn't too uncommon for the PIS to shout out Cumbria stations on a North Wales service!

 

[PHILIPE]

The 175 in North West days was to get it from Chester to Manchester to work what are now TPE trains when they were part of NW.

 

[Philip]

The hydrodynamic brake is still out of action though, at least on the ones I've been on recently. It's about 5 years since I last heard it - always thought that was the best sound the 175s made! It seems a bit odd either to not use it or not fix it given it must surely reduce the wear on friction brakes, particularly from high speed?

 

[northwichcat]

The 175 in North West days was to get it from Chester to Manchester to work what are now TPE trains when they were part of NW.

The working I referred to was more to do with capacity and providing a through working from Stockport to Oxford Road. The 175 did Chester-Altrincham-Manchester-Warrington-Chester-Llandudno and in the Mid-Cheshire line timetable it showed as a Chester to Oxford Road service with a footnote saying continues to Llandudno. However, the PIS indicated the train terminated at Piccadilly and then started a new service to Llandudno.

There was also a 150 which left Chester around 15 minutes before the 175 mentioned above and did Chester-Warrington-Manchester-Altrincham-Manchester.

The 175s for the North West diagrams were usually stabled at Stockport overnight.

 

[PHILIPE]

The 175s (NW) still had to get to and from Chester every couple of nightsfor Maintenance.

 

[Philip]

The working I referred to was more to do with capacity and providing a through working from Stockport to Oxford Road. The 175 did Chester-Altrincham-Manchester-Warrington-Chester-Llandudno and in the Mid-Cheshire line timetable it showed as a Chester to Oxford Road service with a footnote saying continues to Llandudno. However, the PIS indicated the train terminated at Piccadilly and then started a new service to Llandudno.

There was also a 150 which left Chester around 15 minutes before the 175 mentioned above and did Chester-Warrington-Manchester-Altrincham-Manchester.

The 175s for the North West diagrams were usually stabled at Stockport overnight.

http://www.nwrail.org.uk/sum01-175.txt

This is an excellent link to show what the 175s did in early North Western days. Just to point out at the time these diagrams were published FNW were still 7 or 8 units short from the whole fleet being accepted.

Even into TPE days 175s diagrammed for TPE work didn't stable much in the Manchester area - I heard there was one booked onto Longsight depot each night but apart from that the rest stabled overnight at Barrow and Blackpool. There was an ECS working early in the morning from Chester to Blackpool via Wigan formed of a few sets - at Wigan NW one of the units split and worked to the Airport from there. There was also a 23:-- from Blackpool to Manchester Airport formed of a doubled up 175 set which then worked ECS back to Chester in the early hours. Think ATW and TPE also swapped over units at Piccadilly late in the evening - I'd guess that the unit TPE received then stayed at Longsight overnight.

 

[bILLOO]

What stations did the Euston - Manchester Airport trains call at? I only remember them non-stopping through Milton Keynes.

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

The audio PIS used by ATW is still not right, either - too many pointless announcements

The visual announcements are poor as well - the request stops don't feature, so it's a regular occurrence for people to get off at the request stop I live near, thinking it's the next (main) station because - ever since the previous stop - the display has been telling them that the next stop will be the main station where they are planning to alight! Not the fault of the train at all, I appreciate.