A query about buying rail tickets through apps

[Navajo8686]

I never cease to be amazed at the number of people who are caught out by a ticketing irregularity who have bought their ticket using an app. The railway then digs out all their previous transactions to 'catch up with them'.

Surely if they paid for their ticket at a ticket office or from a TVM there is no trace of previous misdemeanours and the railway cannot backtrack to show the extent (or probable extent)?

Am I missing something?

PS I'm on the side of the railway!!

 

[Watershed]

It's theoretically still possible to trace transactions, but it's a lot easier when it's all just "served on a platter" as is the case with online retailers.

 

[fandroid]

I never cease to be amazed at the number of people who are caught out by a ticketing irregularity who have bought their ticket using an app. The railway then digs out all their previous transactions to 'catch up with them'.

Surely if they paid for their ticket at a ticket office or from a TVM there is no trace of previous misdemeanours and the railway cannot backtrack to show the extent (or probable extent)?

Am I missing something?

PS I'm on the side of the railway!!

Some commonly used scams are only easily achieved by using online ticket purchase. Even TOD involves an online purchase. It takes a lot of bother to comprehensively hide your ticket buying trail, especially if you do it over a period of time for the same journeys.

Even ticket office staff would raise a query if a passenger consistently bought tickets that could work for short ticketing or doughnutting.

 

[Tramfan]

It probably doesn't occur to fare evaders that the TOCs would even bother to check, instead just expecting to be given a penalty if they are caught and be done with

 

[SuspectUsual]

It probably doesn't occur to fare evaders that the TOCs would even bother to check, instead just expecting to be given a penalty if they are caught and be done with

I think this sums up a lot of fare evaders

I used to work in central Manchester and two colleagues got caught short faring from stations without barriers and were amazed when Northern started asking about their histories of similar purchases. They both eventually accepted and paid four figure settlements.

Ironically, one of them was a data analyst on the team that managed the company’s loyalty card scheme. You’d have thought he would have known what sort of data is retained for online purchases

 

[bigbogie]

The railway likes to have it both ways:

'Lost your ticket you say? No, it doesn't matter if you have a receipt showing you paid the exact fare you claim, previous tickets and we're not at all interested in your Trainline history showing the exact journey paid for on previous occasions, you can't show a valid ticket this time, so you're getting a fine of approximately half your week's salary - better pay up rather than argue it in court, you might get a criminal record forever'

'You've been flagged by the system - a lot of people with the same ticket as you are involved in fare evasion on a regular basis so we're going to get a court order to look at every journey paid for on there and send you a bill for the tickets we think you should have been paying for.'

 

[Haywain]

'You've been flagged by the system - a lot of people with the same ticket as you are involved in fare evasion on a regular basis so we're going to get a court order to look at every journey paid for on there and send you a bill for the tickets we think you should have been paying for.'

No court order is required.

 

[PeterY]

I've often wondered about the digital footprint buying on an app. I don't process a smart phone and still pay cash at the booking office but that's for a different thread.

 

[Wallsendmag]

'Lost your ticket you say? No, it doesn't matter if you have a receipt showing you paid the exact fare you claim, previous tickets and we're not at all interested in your Trainline history showing the exact journey paid for on previous occasions, you can't show a valid ticket this time, so you're getting a fine of approximately half your week's salary - better pay up rather than argue it in court, you might get a criminal record forever'

Of course if you lose an eTicket you can just go back to your account and download it again

 

[Jonny]

It's theoretically still possible to trace transactions, but it's a lot easier when it's all just "served on a platter" as is the case with online retailers.

Also, they could be for other people to use so it is not that informative.

 

[island]

The railway likes to have it both ways:

'Lost your ticket you say? No, it doesn't matter if you have a receipt showing you paid the exact fare you claim, previous tickets and we're not at all interested in your Trainline history showing the exact journey paid for on previous occasions, you can't show a valid ticket this time, so you're getting a fine of approximately half your week's salary - better pay up rather than argue it in court, you might get a criminal record forever'

'You've been flagged by the system - a lot of people with the same ticket as you are involved in fare evasion on a regular basis so we're going to get a court order to look at every journey paid for on there and send you a bill for the tickets we think you should have been paying for.'

Or passengers could just buy and show the correct ticket. It isn't hard.

 

[jon81uk]

The railway likes to have it both ways:

'Lost your ticket you say? No, it doesn't matter if you have a receipt showing you paid the exact fare you claim, previous tickets and we're not at all interested in your Trainline history showing the exact journey paid for on previous occasions, you can't show a valid ticket this time, so you're getting a fine of approximately half your week's salary - better pay up rather than argue it in court, you might get a criminal record forever'

But thats the same with paper tickets, lose it and its lost no matter how much proof you have of purchasing it.

 

[fandroid]

Of course if you lose an eTicket you can just go back to your account and download it again

We regularly get passengers on here who struggled to access their valid e-ticket when challenged and fairly swiftly are subject to a report and the familiar demands in the mail for large sums of cash.

You'd have to be really cool-headed to resist the pestering of a ticket inspector. We advise having the emailed pdf version accessible, so that there's a quick backup when an app is playing up.

Many of the tales we hear involve the railway staff member assuring the passenger that nothing will come of the problem once they've had a dialogue with the back office. We have no idea whether that reassurance is sometimes, often, or never true, as we only hear about the cases where it very much isn't!

 

[Hadders]

Tickets that reply solely on apps (also known as m-tickets) are best avoided as they can require an internet connection to show the ticket.

E-tickets are sent as an attachment to an email. Once the email has been downloaded to your phone no further internet connection is required. An e-ticket can often be stored in the Apple Wallet or Google Wallet of your phone, for ease of display although this isn't necessary.

When people seek our assistance following a dispute we only hear their side of the story. I'm not saying that some staff don't overstep the mark with assurances about what might happen but often reassurance will be given to prevent a situation escalating to violent or abusive situation.

 

[Buzby]

I have to admit to seeing my mTicket’s virtually disappear when my phone jumped from a network data connection to the on-train WiFi service. In doing so the App required me to fully log in with a password I used over a year ago when being first installed. And no, I didn’t manage to remember it! I now opt to preferring the QR code on the generated PDF which is either saved to my Apple Wallet, or, if it doesn’t offer this (depending on the TOC) I have a small app called Pass4Wallet which is clever enough to scan paperwork and generate Wallet friendly and compatible entries whether supermarket coupon. Theatre or train tickets.

A useful backup in times of travel stress!

 

[43096]

Tickets that reply solely on apps (also known as m-tickets) are best avoided as they can require an internet connection to show the ticket.

E-tickets are sent as an attachment to an email. Once the email has been downloaded to your phone no further internet connection is required. An e-ticket can often be stored in the Apple Wallet or Google Wallet of your phone, for ease of display although this isn't necessary.

Or can be stored in a cloud service (eg Dropbox) so they are backed up and visible on multiple devices.

They can also be printed, of course.