A possible announcement if there were trains between Clitheroe and Hellifield?

[natureboy]

If a regular service is introduced north of Clitheroe on the Blackburn - Hellifield line, could we hear an announcement at Carlisle like this?

“The train now standing at platform six is the 18:18 Northern Rail service to Leeds and Manchester Victoria. Join any part of the train for Armathwaite, Lazonby & Kirkoswald, Langwathby, Appleby, Kirkby Stephen, Garsdale, Dent, Ribblehead, Horton-in-Ribblesdale, Settle and Hellifield where it will then divide. The front portion of the train will go forward to Skipton, Keighley, Shipley and Leeds; the rear portion, for Clitheroe, Blackburn, Darwen, Bromley Cross, Bolton, Salford Crescent, Salford Central and Manchester Victoria. Platform six for the 18:18 Northern Rail service to Leeds and Manchester Victoria. Passengers travelling beyond Hellifield please ensure you are in the correct part of the train.”

 

[34D]

I'd like to think so. HOWEVER wouldn't the preference of Clitheroe people be to reverse and go to Skipton?

 

[Tomnick]

It's not possible to either reverse or join portions under the present signalling arrangements anyway, so I wouldn't worry too much on either count!

 

[evoluzione]

You missed out Whalley, Langho, Ramsgreave & Wilpshire, Entwistle and Hall I' Th' Wood

 

[gnolife]

You missed out Whalley, Langho, Ramsgreave & Wilpshire, Entwistle and Hall I' Th' Wood

I think he was just going for stopping at the busiedt stations, much like the Carlisle- Leeds services currently do south of Skipton, and suggesting thst the minor stops be served by a local stopping service starting from Clitheroe.

 

[evoluzione]

And where would this extra capacity to run express from Clitheroe come from?

The Single line already causes problems.

 

[bluenoxid]

I'd like to think so. HOWEVER wouldn't the preference of Clitheroe people be to reverse and go to Skipton?

Erm. A bit six and two threes. They would probably want more trains to Manchester before Skipton and Carlisle. There isn't that much of a bus service between Skipton and Clitheroe and neither settlement is ginormous or home to a substantial employer (several thousand staff). I doubt that the train would match car travel time either.

 

[30907]

There isn't that much of a bus service between Skipton and Clitheroe and neither settlement is...home to a substantial employer (several thousand staff).

An hourly service through the day counts as pretty good in rural Lancs. And the Skipton Building Society is a fairly big employer....I agree though that I can't foresee a huge demand.

 

[PR1Berske]

Nice in theory but wouldn't work. Getting into/out of Blackburn is a nightmare enough as it is

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You missed out Whalley, Langho, Ramsgreave & Wilpshire, Entwistle and Hall I' Th' Wood

I must add my sad regret at Whalley being omitted...:cry:

 

[high camera]

As a future resident of Clitheroe I would really like to know what is required between Bolton, Blackburn and Clitheroe to increase and improve services.

Are the single track sections likely to be doubled again ?

 

[PR1Berske]

As a future resident of Clitheroe I would really like to know what is required between Bolton, Blackburn and Clitheroe to increase and improve services.

Are the single track sections likely to be doubled again ?

Certainly not between Bolton and Blackburn, there's too many hilly bits, old tunnels and steep drops.

 

[Carlisle]

Nice in theory but wouldn't work. Getting into/out of Blackburn is a nightmare enough as it is

I would have thought there was potential for some kind of services on this route as it has been used for many years to accommodate diverted BR and latterly Virgin trains from Carlisle to Preston on weekend engineering closures of the west coast mainline

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I would have thought there was potential for some kind of services on this route as it has been used for many years to accommodate diverted BR and latterly Virgin trains from Carlisle to Preston on weekend engineering closures of the west coast mainline

This service from Blackburn to Clitheroe has been quite a success since station reopenings occurred and has done much to improve the transport links in that area, offering as it does, a through direct route that serves Blackburn, Bolton and Manchester.

Noting that it is an accredited diversionary route, would this mean that the running lines would be kept to a better level of track maintenance than on other small branch lines ?

 

[34D]

It's not possible to either reverse or join portions under the present signalling arrangements anyway, so I wouldn't worry too much on either count!

There are trailing crossovers (on both lines) south of Hellifield station. IIRC some Leeds-Hellifield-Leeds trains operated a few months ago.

I am unsure what signalling changes may be needed, though

 

[PR1Berske]

I would have thought there was potential for some kind of services on this route as it has been used for many years to accommodate diverted BR and latterly Virgin trains from Carlisle to Preston on weekend engineering closures of the west coast mainline

As people are so eager to remind me on these forums, I'm looking at that blessed word "capacity" :roll:

 

[Carlisle]

As people are so eager to remind me on these forums, I'm looking at that blessed word "capacity" :roll:

You may well be right as i don't have the detailed knowledge to say weather there is much spare capacity during weedays with more freight etc,just weekends when i have seen diversions and Dalesrail services using the route .

 

[Darren R]

Capacity between Daisyfield Junction (Blackburn) and Horrocksford Junction (Clitheroe) is fairly restricted by the signalling. It was, until a couple of years ago, one long block section between these two points. There is now an intermediate block signal in both directions (somewhere around Langho station I think, but I can't remember for sure), but the sections are still rather long. Any increase in service levels would probably need further upgrades.

Originally Posted by 34D
There are trailing crossovers (on both lines) south of Hellifield station. IIRC some Leeds-Hellifield-Leeds trains operated a few months ago.

I am unsure what signalling changes may be needed, though

This came up a few months ago on a different thread. I seem to recall that the points of which you speak don't have the necessary locking and need to locked manually to be used.

 

[Tomnick]

There are trailing crossovers (on both lines) south of Hellifield station. IIRC some Leeds-Hellifield-Leeds trains operated a few months ago.

I am unsure what signalling changes may be needed, though

There are indeed - without FPLs, so no good for passenger trains without clipping and scotching. That's one of the options for turning trains back from the south on an occasional basis - other options (which were mentioned the thread that Darren R refers to) mentions include running ECS to Settle Jn and back (preferable) or an unsignalled shunt to the Up platform (not ideal - theoretically possible without clipping and scotching, but I'd be reluctant...). To attach portions, you'd need the Down platform to be permissive (with, signalling-wise, a subsidiary calling-on arm on the inner home from each direction).

 

[Carlisle]

Cheers for the info ,i know there has been some investment in extra signals around the northern end of the settle & Carlisle in recent years but was unsure what the situation was south of Hellifield