A new peril - doors closing early!

[CaptainHaddock]

Following the recent threads on here about the excessive number of announcements, those of us who have to suffer travel from Northern Rail stations now have a new peril to deal with.

Did you know that train doors may close early - sometimes up to a minute before departure? Well if not, Northern clearly think you really really do need to know as, not only do they announce it every 5 minutes but it's also information deemed worthy of a whole page to itself on the station VDU screens.

What makes it even dafter is that the announcement is preceded by the words "This is a special announcement"; now normally when I hear those words it's one of the few times I do listen as the word "special" implies it's something very important and/or unusual.

Thus my local station's information screens the other morning cycled through no less than 4 pages of information of which only one displayed the information anyone might need to know - ie what trains are due and if they're on time or not!

Will Northern's overload of unnecessary information ever end?

 

[Schnellzug]

Question is, why does it take up to a minute for the doors to close? They want to take a look at that, i think. Maybe give them some oil. It's not as if they've got 20 coach Eurostars.

 

[T163R]

So Northern close their doors up to 1 minute before departure ???
It's normally 30 seconds...
And even with all these ads saying that "doors close 30 seconds before departure" I've still never been on a UK train with doors closing 30 secs. before departure !

 

[ChrisCooper]

I suppose it's so when someone gets to the platform less than a minute before departure and finds the doors closed they will think "oh well, the screen did tell me that the doors would close up to 1 minute before departure, along with lots of other things. Perhaps if it had told me what platform my train was going from instead though I could actually be on it instead of waiting around for the next one in an hour!"

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Doors don't close early, passengers are just always running late..!

 

[Roylang]

So Northern close their doors up to 1 minute before departure ???
It's normally 30 seconds...
And even with all these ads saying that "doors close 30 seconds before departure" I've still never been on a UK train with doors closing 30 secs. before departure !

Really? In my experience this is very common. Often end up sat on a train ready to go waiting for the correct departure time.

Roy

 

[scrapy]

In the Greater Manchester area Northern don't even seem to be able to make the visual announcements properly. On the larger TV monitors the message reads 'Passengers, Please be aware that train doors may close up to a minute before departure' (or something very similar).

However on the Platform Train destinaton indicators they seem unable to make the message scroll so it simply says 'Passengers, Please be aware'. This leads to remarks from passengers asking what they are meant to be aware of? and makes Northern look totally amaturish.

 

[MCR247]

Question is, why does it take up to a minute for the doors to close? They want to take a look at that, i think. Maybe give them some oil. It's not as if they've got 20 coach Eurostars.

A 2 car Eurostar would take the same amount of time for the doors to close as a 35 car Eurostar

 

[Mutant Lemming]

London Overground (along with a few other operators) have doors that automatically close after an amount of time whether the train is due to depart or not.

 

[ainsworth74]

London Overground (along with a few other operators) have doors that automatically close after an amount of time whether the train is due to depart or not.

But of course it is possible to reopen them unlike when they are closed prior to departure Actually this a very handy feature during winter on stock that doesn't have distinct vestibule separating the outside from the passenger compartment as it helps to keep the heat in!

 

[Schnellzug]

London Overground (along with a few other operators) have doors that automatically close after an amount of time whether the train is due to depart or not.

yes, Desiros have that. In fact, I think it was brought in with networkers. It can cause some indignation as someone comes along the Platform and the door shuts in their face, so they think they've missed the train.

 

[northwichcat]

It's not unknown for Northern services to have the doors closed 2-3 minutes before the timetabled departure time and then to move off before the timetabled time.

A few years back Northern announced that their conductors all have synchronised watches to prevent that from happening but it still does happen.

Although, it is a lot more common for them to be running 2-3 minutes late rather than 2-3 minutes early.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

yes, Desiros have that. In fact, I think it was brought in with networkers. It can cause some indignation as someone comes along the Platform and the door shuts in their face, so they think they've missed the train.

Turbostars have that as well.

With 185s it's really annoying if you're at the origin station and on the train early because the doors slam shut and do so every minute or so.

 

[driver9000]

This latest campaign to advertise that doors are closed early is part of Northerns desire to achieve 94% PPM across its network. The station posters that have cropped up all over the place in the last couple of months all state train doors close 30 seconds before departure. Why monitors and PA is saying 1 minute is anyones guess though. They want the train to start rolling on 00 seconds at the scheduled departure time.

I've seen similar posters from other TOCs in a similar theme too - Virgin Trains put theirs up around a year ago.

 

[simonm]

Really? In my experience this is very common. Often end up sat on a train ready to go waiting for the correct departure time.

Roy

At Exeter St Davids they are quite hot on this. Regularly blow the whistle and shut the doors about 45 secs before departure. Often a train is chugging up the hill to central before the departure time!

 

[northwichcat]

This latest campaign to advertise that doors are closed early is part of Northerns desire to achieve 94% PPM across its network. The station posters that have cropped up all over the place in the last couple of months all state train doors close 30 seconds before departure. Why monitors and PA is saying 1 minute is anyones guess though. They want the train to start rolling on 00 seconds at the scheduled departure time.

I've seen similar posters from other TOCs in a similar theme too - Virgin Trains put theirs up around a year ago.

Maybe in that case they should do more about getting extra revenue staff on trains or making it easier for conductors to release doors from immediate positions.

I imagine, ignoring delays caused by circumstances outside their control or train faults, that around 5% of minor delays are down to passengers and 95% are down to the slow release of doors at stations.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

This latest campaign to advertise that doors are closed early is part of Northerns desire to achieve 94% PPM across its network. The station posters that have cropped up all over the place in the last couple of months all state train doors close 30 seconds before departure. Why monitors and PA is saying 1 minute is anyones guess though. They want the train to start rolling on 00 seconds at the scheduled departure time.

I've seen similar posters from other TOCs in a similar theme too - Virgin Trains put theirs up around a year ago.

I suppose there is some rationale behind that, but I just wish they were as prompt in opening the doors on arrival at stations! Many's the time the train's pulled in and the doors haven't been opened for a couple of minutes as the conductor's up the other end of the train issuing a ticket. It wouldn't surprise me if that was the cause of delays more than the train doors not closing early enough before departure.

 

[ObservationCar]

It annoys me when I can't just read a screen to find out arrivals and departures. But it is nesecery to put anything across the screen to refresh it every so often to avoid screen burn.

 

[150222]

Well it normally takes over 1 minute to unjam the pacer doors

 

[Flamingo]

Maybe in that case they should do more about getting extra revenue staff on trains or making it easier for conductors to release doors from immediate positions.

I imagine, ignoring delays caused by circumstances outside their control or train faults, that around 5% of minor delays are down to passengers and 95% are down to the slow release of doors at stations.

You have obviously NEVER looked at what happens on a platform.

Between 2/3 of all passengers trying to get in the same door, and (bloody) bikes turning up at the last minute in the wrong part of the platform, and people deciding that they want coach A despite them standing the wrong end of the platform so they then drag their unfeasibly large suitcase down the platform, and them leaving doors open after that section of the train has been checked so the platform staff / traincrew have to walk back and shut the damn door behind them I would reverse that proportion, in my experience.

 

[Greenback]

Maybe in that case they should do more about getting extra revenue staff on trains or making it easier for conductors to release doors from immediate positions.

I imagine, ignoring delays caused by circumstances outside their control or train faults, that around 5% of minor delays are down to passengers and 95% are down to the slow release of doors at stations.

What may seem slow is the conductor having to go through the procedure to release the doors. On my local 153's, the guard has to release two switches in two different panels before the dorrs can be unlocked and opened. I have been informed they cannot start this until the train has come to a stand at the platform. They then opne the lcoal door and check that the train is on the platofr, before releasing the rest of the doors.

You have obviously NEVER looked at what happens on a platform.

Between 2/3 of all passengers trying to get in the same door, and (bloody) bikes turning up at the last minute in the wrong part of the platform, and people deciding that they want coach A despite them standing the wrong end of the platform so they then drag their unfeasibly large suitcase down the platform, and them leaving doors open after that section of the train has been checked so the platform staff / traincrew have to walk back and shut the damn door behind them I would reverse that proportion, in my experience.

Be fair, there is far less information about train formations on UK stations than in Europe. Most people don't know where to stand in the first place, even I don't know where coach A will be on ATW, and even on FGW the train is sometimes in reverse without any indication of this.

You are right about the HST doors though, so many people don;t bother to close them!

 

[ChrisCooper]

It annoys me when I can't just read a screen to find out arrivals and departures. But it is nesecery to put anything across the screen to refresh it every so often to avoid screen burn.

Screen Burn doesn't effect modern LCD or LEDs at all, infact it's not really a problem on more modern CRTs. Also in the days when CRTs were common they didn't used to change all the time anyway. You did on occasion get screen burn though, mainly noticable when screens were swapped from different locations, as it only occured really occured when it was showing the same thing constantly, so it wouldn't be noticed until that changed.

I think there was a screen at Norwich that had something burned into it, something about Stansted Express rings a bell, suggesting it was formerly at Liverpool St and just showing Stanstead Express departures before being moved to Norwich.

 

[northwichcat]

What may seem slow is the conductor having to go through the procedure to release the doors. On my local 153's, the guard has to release two switches in two different panels before the dorrs can be unlocked and opened. I have been informed they cannot start this until the train has come to a stand at the platform. They then opne the lcoal door and check that the train is on the platofr, before releasing the rest of the doors

I'm actually talking about the guard still doing a ticket check about 5 seconds before the train stops and then not actually getting to the door release controls until 30 seconds to one minute after the train has stopped.

 

[jha4ceb]

At Levenshulme, this announcement almost always comically occurs at the same time as a train pulling in one minute late.

 

[466.networkers]

yes, Desiros have that. In fact, I think it was brought in with networkers. It can cause some indignation as someone comes along the Platform and the door shuts in their face, so they think they've missed the train.

Electrostars/Turbostara were the first mainline trains to come with automatically closing doors after a preset delay, not Networkers.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

It's not unknown for Northern services to have the doors closed 2-3 minutes before the timetabled departure time and then to move off before the timetabled time.

A few years back Northern announced that their conductors all have synchronised watches to prevent that from happening but it still does happen.

Although, it is a lot more common for them to be running 2-3 minutes late rather than 2-3 minutes early.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Turbostars have that as well.

With 185s it's really annoying if you're at the origin station and on the train early because the doors slam shut and do so every minute or so.

a few points that everyone likes to make but never seem to listen to the reasons why


1. synchronised watches...great things, however when they break the company that supplies them no longer exists, so that is a no-no

2. usually the reasons we are late (Stoke/Crewe/Airport Lines) is OTHER operators (Virgin & XC & ATW on the Stoke & Crewe services) and TPE on the Manchester Airport lines.

3. if one of our trains does leave early usually its a simple error (mistakes happen) and contrary to public belief it is rare, if it wasn't there wouldn’t be any guards left, myself and the majority of my colleagues leave it to about 20 seconds give or take a couple.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

At Levenshulme, this announcement almost always comically occurs at the same time as a train pulling in one minute late.

At Romiley the announcement for the SHF train happens just as the RSH service pulls in!

 

[Greenback]

I'm actually talking about the guard still doing a ticket check about 5 seconds before the train stops and then not actually getting to the door release controls until 30 seconds to one minute after the train has stopped.

That doe shappen aroundhere, but usually its more to do with an unusual ticket request or a passenger enquiry. The guards normally stop the inspections in plenty of time to make the next station announcement, as well as release the doors.

 

[185]

Stupid use of "Departure Screen Monitors" has for a while been a pet hate of mine. Smoking, left luggage and bombs should be on a printed poster, not the (often only) information screen in a station.

---

For your safety and security please do not
cycle,
smoke,
rollerskate,
leave luggage unattended,
skateboard,
blow up,
or think FirstGroup are great
anywhere in this station.

CCTV operates throughout.

and by the way, platform 4 for the 11.35 First Trans Keolis Pennine Out on Strike Distress Train Complany Limited to Wem.

....has just departed.

30 seconds early whilst you were reading all that garbage.

 

[northwichcat]

You have obviously NEVER looked at what happens on a platform.

Between 2/3 of all passengers trying to get in the same door, and (bloody) bikes turning up at the last minute in the wrong part of the platform, and people deciding that they want coach A despite them standing the wrong end of the platform so they then drag their unfeasibly large suitcase down the platform, and them leaving doors open after that section of the train has been checked so the platform staff / traincrew have to walk back and shut the damn door behind them I would reverse that proportion, in my experience.

I'm referring specifically to Northern who don't have seat reservations or slam door trains, so some of your points aren't relevant. Quite often on their services if passengers are unevenly distributed on the platform it's because either:
1. The empty space on the train isn't evenly distributed so more people try to get in the empty carriage than the full one.
2. The train that turns up isn't the expected length or has a set locked out of use.
3. The shelter on the platform is in the wrong place.

You're saying about passengers taking their suitcase or bike to the other end of the train from where they were waiting. If it's a Pacer that's the right thing to do if the luggage area turns up at the front and you're waiting where the rear of the train stops or vice versa.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That doe shappen aroundhere, but usually its more to do with an unusual ticket request or a passenger enquiry. The guards normally stop the inspections in plenty of time to make the next station announcement, as well as release the doors.

That's not the case on my local line. A few Saturdays back a Chester-Manchester service was run by a Merseytravel 142. At Hale around 40 people boarded and it was quite packed departing Hale. Altrincham is two minutes up the line and the conductor asked three people in the middle of the train for tickets after the train had actually stopped at Altrincham station. He then had to walk back to the rear of the train and release the doors. The train should have departed at 4 minutes past but the LED screen was showing 4 minutes 50 seconds when the doors were finally opened.

 

[Greenback]

You're saying about passengers taking their suitcase or bike to the other end of the train from where they were waiting. If it's a Pacer that's the right thing to do if the luggage area turns up at the front and you're waiting where the rear of the train stops or vice versa.

Yes, that's another common problem - guess where the luggage/bike spaces are going to be! On many lines it can be a bit of a lottery as to what unit turns up - here it could be a Pacer, a 150, a 158 or a 175!

That's not the case on my local line. A few Saturdays back a Chester-Manchester service was run by a Merseytravel 142. At Hale around 40 people boarded and it was quite packed departing Hale. Altrincham is two minutes up the line and the conductor asked three people in the middle of the train for tickets after the train had actually stopped at Altrincham station. He then had to walk back to the rear of the train and release the doors. The train should have departed at 4 minutes past but the LED screen was showing 4 minutes 50 seconds when the doors were finally opened.

Luckily we don't have stations two minutes apart. The guard won't have time to do much, but if they don't try they are criticised!

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Yes, that's another common problem - guess where the luggage/bike spaces are going to be! On many lines it can be a bit of a lottery as to what unit turns up - here it could be a Pacer, a 150, a 158 or a 175!



Luckily we don't have stations two minutes apart. The guard won't have time to do much, but if they don't try they are criticised!

I try not to let it bother me nowadays mate, I like helping out and giving my opinion but some people think miracles can happen!, actually the 5 stations between [stn]MIA[/stn] and [stn]MAN[/stn] are the perfect example (2 minutes in between) and we still get the usual having a go if we don't do tickets until either after Heald Green or Mauldeth Road