A New Civity Trains for EMR

[AM9]

There's no reason to expect these units to be cascaded away from Wales prior to any alternative power or electrification being put in place, really.

The one that I do find bizarre is that they have saved 50p by specifying the FLIRTs without a pantograph and transformer. Those could indeed end up elsewhere.

That may be true, but 30-40 years is along time to assume that there won't be any electrification on any of the routes that these trains will run services on. In fact, even half of that time might see considerable changes in the energy options for rail, - plus there's the possibility that much of the rail infrastructure in Wales might be stripped-down to something that doesn't rely on plain diesel trains.

 

[Kite159]

There's no reason to expect these units to be cascaded away from Wales prior to any alternative power or electrification being put in place, really.

The one that I do find bizarre is that they have saved 50p by specifying the FLIRTs without a pantograph and transformer. Those could indeed end up elsewhere.

Especially since some of those diesel only flirts will work under the wires from Cardiff to Severn Tunnel Junction.

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New DMUs make sense as it allows for the future retirement of some of the sprinters, some lines will never see wires (especially in Wales). That 2040 target will get pushed back and back.

 

[AM9]

Especially since some of those diesel only flirts will work under the wires from Cardiff to Severn Tunnel Junction.

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New DMUs make sense as it allows for the future retirement of some of the sprinters, some lines will never see wires (especially in Wales). That 2040 target will get pushed back and back.

"New DMUs", if you mean pure diesels, i.e. with mechanical or hydraulic transmissions, no longer make sense anywhere in the UK. If there is still a shortage of self propelled units. DEMUs fulfil the need just as well. Their performance is equivalent to or better than the slightly cheaper option, and they will have easy options for conversion to non-carbon mode. As such, their longevity is also likely to be greater, with a greater overall reliability.

 

[Nym]

"New DMUs", if you mean pure diesels, i.e. with mechanical or hydraulic transmissions, no longer make sense anywhere in the UK. If there is still a shortage of self propelled units. DEMUs fulfil the need just as well. Their performance is equivalent to or better than the slightly cheaper option, and they will have easy options for conversion to non-carbon mode. As such, their longevity is also likely to be greater, with a greater overall reliability.

Then as such, ROSCOs will be more willing to entertain any orders at all.
I strongly suspect that the current tranche of CAF DMUs is down to a price because of the uncertainty of their longer term future.

A Bi-Mode unit with a "generator plus" config like the Stadler or Hitachi units would be more palletble, and will potentially increase quality.

 

[AM9]

Then as such, ROSCOs will be more willing to entertain any orders at all.
I strongly suspect that the current tranche of CAF DMUs is down to a price because of the uncertainty of their longer term future.

My comment was more about the prospect of these trains spending all of their 30-35 years in Wales. When they become politically unacceptable to the Welsh Government of the day, they will be back on the UK stock availability list. Your point about the CAF 19x classes being cheap as they are effectively obsolescent stock (in environmental terms) is interesting. That puts them in the same category as tungsten lightbulbs - albeit with a far more damaging use profile and a much longer life. DEMUs are likely to have a longer operational life (which may make their through-life cost lower than the CAF stock clearing sale items).

A Bi-Mode unit with a "generator plus" config like the Stadler or Hitachi units would be more palletble, and will potentially increase quality.

Provided they are fully interchangeable and the growth of their numbers is stricly controlled to avoid having a surfeit of relatively young units encouraging some operators/authorities to keep them running because they were doing nothing.

 

[Nym]

Indeed.
There needs to be a UK wide coherent plan for electrification over the lifespan of the current rolling stock profile plus 10 years to put any proper plans in place.

And I just don't see anyone at the ORR, DfT or SRA Mk.2 actually doing this, let alone having sufficient knowledge to plan this.