A London and North Western Railway query

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I was asked something that I should have been able to answer but had to admit that I could not. What was the most easterly closed station that was solely served by the LNWR and what line was it on?

Can anyone assist, please.

 

[Gloster]

I would presume that it was Lord’s Bridge for passengers. I think that Cambridge L&NW goods was further east than any goods depot in London’s Docks. On the Oxford-Bletchley-Cambridge line.

EDIT: there was an L&NWR goods depot at East Ham, but I reckon Cambridge was a little bit further east.

 

[Magdalia]

I would presume that it was Lord’s Bridge for passengers. I think that Cambridge L&NW goods was further east than any goods depot in London’s Docks.

EDIT: there was an L&NWR goods depot at East Ham, but I reckon Cambridge was a little bit further east.

The LNWR route into Cambridge is the only LNWR route that crosses the Greenwich Meridian into the Eastern Hemisphere. The point where that happens is near the Toft and Kingston goods station.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

For some reason, I did think of a nearby station that of Old North Road. On checking on Lord's Bridge, after your very quick response, I see that both of those two stations were opened on 1st August 1862 and closed on 1st January 1968, but geographically, I am unsure which was the most easterly.

Cambridge was not solely served by the LNWR and is still open.

 

[Magdalia]

I think that Cambridge L&NW goods was further east than any goods depot in London’s Docks.

I'd agree that, for goods, Cambridge is further east than East Ham.

For some reason, I did think of a nearby station that of Old North Road. On checking on Lord's Bridge, after your very quick response, I see that both of those two stations were opened on 1st August 1862 and closed on 1st January 1968, but geographically, I am unsure which was the most easterly.

Cambridge was not solely served by the LNWR and is still open.

Lords Bridge is more easterly than Old North Road, and the only LNWR passenger station in the Eastern Hemisphere. I think the station building still stands as part of the Mullard Radio Observatory.

 

[Gloster]

For some reason, I did think of a nearby station that of Old North Road. On checking on Lord's Bridge, after your very quick response, I see that both of those two stations were opened on 1st August 1862 and closed on 1st January 1968, but geographically, I am unsure which was the most easterly.

Cambridge was not solely served by the LNWR and is still open.

Old North Road was the next passenger station to the west, although Toft & Kingston goods station was in between. The passenger station at Cambridge may be open, but the L&NWR’s own goods station has gone.

 

[Magdalia]

The passenger station at Cambridge may be open, but the L&NWR’s own goods station has gone.

The Cambridge LNWR goods station was big and went back to the Hills Road/Brooklands Avenue road junction.

The LNWR also had their own signal box at Cambridge which gave access to their goods and loco sheds without going onto GER tracks.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Thanks to those website members for assisting in this manner.

 

[Rescars]

This thread leads to another LNWR query. Looking for maps of the LNWR, I have come across a General Map of the LNWR system on Wikipedia, dated 1920. This map shows a projected line branching to the west of the main line between Low Gill and Tebay and rejoining it between Shap and Penrith. Presumably the idea was to bypass Shap summit. The map key suggests that this line was either projected or in the course of construction. Do others know anything about this intriguing might-have-been?

 

[Magdalia]

The passenger station at Cambridge may be open, but the L&NWR’s own goods station has gone.

Yesterday afternoon I couldn't remember what happened to the LNWR goods shed, but preparing some vegetables reminded me.

When I was growing up in Cambridge the LNWR goods shed was still there and used as a warehouse by a local vegetable wholesale business called Pordages.

But I'm still not sure when the building was demolished.

 

[Gloster]

This lead me on to check the other points of the compass:

Northernmost is Wreay station (passenger) and Carlisle Crown Street goods depot.
Southernmost was Euston for passenger and Knight’s Hill near Tulse Hill for goods.
Westernmost was Holyhead for both unless you count Dublin North Wall for goods or want to include Dundalk Quay Street on the Dundalk, Newry & Greenore, which trumps them both.

 

[contrex]

Knight’s Hill near Tulse Hill for goods.

Immediately adjacent to my infants school, which I attended from 1957 to 1960, by which time it had closed, I think. Very interesting at playtimes.

 

[Rescars]

This lead me on to check the other points of the compass:

Northernmost is Wreay station (passenger) and Carlisle Crown Street goods depot.
Southernmost was Euston for passenger and Knight’s Hill near Tulse Hill for goods.
Westernmost was Holyhead for both unless you count Dublin North Wall for goods or want to include Dundalk Quay Street on the Dundalk, Newry & Greenore, which trumps them both.

Broad Street might be a challenger for Euston. It seems a little further south, but ownership/funding and operating was a bit more of a joint affair with the NLR.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This thread leads to another LNWR query. Looking for maps of the LNWR, I have come across a General Map of the LNWR system on Wikipedia, dated 1920. This map shows a projected line branching to the west of the main line between Low Gill and Tebay and rejoining it between Shap and Penrith. Presumably the idea was to bypass Shap summit. The map key suggests that this line was either projected or in the course of construction. Do others know anything about this intriguing might-have-been?

Some time ago, I recall reading that the line engineer Joseph Locke rejected both the idea of tunneling through Shap and also that of a circuitous avoiding line through the area of the northern Lake District.

 

[Gloster]

This thread leads to another LNWR query. Looking for maps of the LNWR, I have come across a General Map of the LNWR system on Wikipedia, dated 1920. This map shows a projected line branching to the west of the main line between Low Gill and Tebay and rejoining it between Shap and Penrith. Presumably the idea was to bypass Shap summit. The map key suggests that this line was either projected or in the course of construction. Do others know anything about this intriguing might-have-been?

A search through several books produced only an item from David Joy’s The Lake Counties, Volume 14 of David & Charles’ A Regional History of the Railways of Great Britain from 1990. In 1898 the L&NWR chairman announced that ’steps were being taken’ to avoid Shap by an 8 1/2 long deviation involving a tunnel which would improve the gradient from 1 in 75 to 1 in 135. This was authorised on 12 August 1898, but only some preliminary work was done; the LMS renewed the powers in the 1930s but they later were allowed to lapse.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

Yesterday afternoon I couldn't remember what happened to the LNWR goods shed, but preparing some vegetables reminded me.

When I was growing up in Cambridge the LNWR goods shed was still there and used as a warehouse by a local vegetable wholesale business called Pordages.

But I'm still not sure when the building was demolished.

My recollection is that Pordages were still in business (specifically as "potato merchants") in a old building at the corner of Hills Road and Brooklands Avenue when I moved to Cambridge in the last 1970s

 

[Rescars]

A search through several books produced only an item from David Joy’s The Lake Counties, Volume 14 of David & Charles’ A Regional History of the Railways of Great Britain from 1990. In 1898 the L&NWR chairman announced that ’steps were being taken’ to avoid Shap by an 8 1/2 long deviation involving a tunnel which would improve the gradient from 1 in 75 to 1 in 135. This was authorised on 12 August 1898, but only some preliminary work was done; the LMS renewed the powers in the 1930s but they later were allowed to lapse.

Thanks for this. It seems remarkable that the concept appeared on what appears to be a public map almost a quarter of a century after powers had been obtained, even though nothing much had been done. Also interesing that the LMS was still interested. Presumably it was difficult to raise the necessary funding during the 1930s and then matters would have been overtaken by WW2.

 

[Snow1964]

This lead me on to check the other points of the compass:

Northernmost is Wreay station (passenger) and Carlisle Crown Street goods depot.
Southernmost was Euston for passenger and Knight’s Hill near Tulse Hill for goods.
Westernmost was Holyhead for both unless you count Dublin North Wall for goods or want to include Dundalk Quay Street on the Dundalk, Newry & Greenore, which trumps them both.

L&NWR also had a station called St Quintin Park and Wormwood Scrubs, (which was L&NW only, not joint unlike other stations on the line) on the joint (with GWR) West London line, just south of North Pole junction, north of Kensington Addison Rd (now Olympia). This was slightly further south than Euston.

West London line - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Pigeon]

Some time ago, I recall reading that the line engineer Joseph Locke rejected both the idea of tunneling through Shap and also that of a circuitous avoiding line through the area of the northern Lake District.

Locke was very much an up-and-over guy, quite the opposite of Stephenson. Stephenson proposed a causeway across Morecambe Bay and a route round the coast, as the only possible flat option. Another possibility would have been to have the main line running through Kendal and then north up the valley to tunnel through to Haweswater; Kendal were a bit miffed that this didn't happen.

 

[Dr Hoo]

This lead me on to check the other points of the compass:

Northernmost is Wreay station (passenger) and Carlisle Crown Street goods depot.
Southernmost was Euston for passenger and Knight’s Hill near Tulse Hill for goods.
Westernmost was Holyhead for both unless you count Dublin North Wall for goods or want to include Dundalk Quay Street on the Dundalk, Newry & Greenore, which trumps them both.

If Ireland can be included why not New York in the USA for southernmost? The L&NWR had an office at 141 Broadway (not sure if it was East or West). If the rule of thumb of 69 miles per degree of latitude is correct the difference between New York at around 40.5 degrees North and London at around 51.5 degrees North is around 759 miles.

 

[etr221]

Broad Street might be a challenger for Euston. It seems a little further south, but ownership/funding and operating was a bit more of a joint affair with the NLR.

The NLR was absorbed by the LNWR on 1922-01-01, so for that year (1922) Broad Street (noticably further south than Euston) was an LNWR station by ownership, not just operation, but Poplar East India Road (NLR/LNWR) in the same position was further south, to be (I believe) the southernmost station, slightly more so than St Quintin Park.

 

[Rescars]

How much further would the compass points be extended if we were to include regular passenger workings by LNWR stock over other lines? For instance, AIUI, the Sunny South Express ran from Manchester to Brighton and the LNWR carriages worked throughout, though the LBSC provided the motive power when the train left LNWR metals. Am I correct that LNWR coaching stock worked regularly to destinations such as Stranraer, Oban, Inverness, Aberystwyth and Penzance?

 

[Mogz]

Related but OT… which was the most WESTERLY served by the LNER?

 

[Gloster]

Related but OT… which was the most WESTERLY served by the LNER?

I think it is Arisaig. Outside of Scotland it was Silloth and in Wales it was Buckley. (Just a quick look, so E&OE.)

 

[Mogz]

I think it is Arisaig. Outside of Scotland it was Buckley and in England it was Upton. (Just a quick look, so E&OE.)

Thanks! I did wonder if one of the Bidston-Wrexham line stations would be, given that line was an odd LNER outpost.

 

[Gloster]

Thanks! I did wonder if one of the Bidston-Wrexham line stations would be, given that line was an odd LNER outpost.

I have just checked and in England it was Silloth, which is also further west than Buckley. (#24 corrected.)

 

[norbitonflyer]

I think it is Arisaig. Outside of Scotland it was Silloth and in Wales it was Buckley. (Just a quick look, so E&OE.)

Since Arisaig is still the most westerly point on the National Rail network, and was part of the LNER, that must be the answer. LNER also had the most easterly, at Lowestoft