A Lame Plug Socket Question

[JamesM]

Hello guys,

So I'm on the 8:41 Wrexham to Shrewsbury tomorrow, then the 09:30 Shrewsbury to Birmingham.

Then the 17:23 Birmingham to Wrexham.

How can I work out whether these will be decent quality trains, with plug sockets at table seats? Would be useful as I'll have my laptop!

Such a lame thread I know!

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Just to be pedantic - there are plugs and there are sockets.
(Based on a well-known arrangement in nature).

Inclusivity hasn't reached electrical terminology (yet).

But I think this is a useful thread - I have been caught out a few times myself.

 

[14xxDave]

I agree..plugs are plugs and sockets are sockets. Not sure where this "plug socket" thing has come from...probably the same way that "lend' is used instead of borrow...

Anyway...you booked 1st class? Sockets tend to be few and far between in other areas

 

[reb0118]

Just to be pedantic - there are plugs and there are sockets.
(Based on a well-known arrangement in nature).

Ah the old male/female connectors scenario.

Reminds me when the tail lamp failed on the LHCS and I had to explain to a lady controller that even in these enlightened times a halo lamp (male) & the lamp bracket on the train (male) would not connect. We needed a double ended female connector to bridge the gap so to speak.

 

[JamesM]

Ha - Well, I can only apologise for my technical faux pas. I've let myself down and the forum down.

In the past, there have been some decent ish trains that I have been on. You guys will know the class numbers far better than I will on that line - but I wondered if there was any way of working it out.

Best

 

[Bedpan]

Surely there are numerous types of sockets for different purposes, (socket -a hollow part or piece for receiving and holding some part or thing). The term "plug socket", aka wall socket, is used simply to clarify the type of socket that the OP is referring to. (As opposed to, say, a bulb socket which would hold a light bulb but would be no good for powering a laptop without a suitable adapter). It wasn't a faux pas at all, JamesM!

 

[Nym]

I believe the OP is attempting to refer to the BS1363 Electrical Socket...

Possibly the IEC60309 socket if he's planning on some welding, maybe even the IEC 60320 C13 Socket for specialist equipment, but the BS1363 is most likely...

 

[transportphoto]

Anyway...you booked 1st class? Sockets tend to be few and far between in other areas

There is unlikely to be FC accomodation on these services as most if not all are Arriva Wales services (the Shrewsbury to Birmingham may be LM).

On ATW refurbished 158's there are plug sockets, I believe at tables only. Don't quote me on that, however I certainly remember using them earlier this year.

TP

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Hello guys,

So I'm on the 8:41 Wrexham to Shrewsbury tomorrow, then the 09:30 Shrewsbury to Birmingham.

Then the 17:23 Birmingham to Wrexham....

You mean the 0834 Wrexham to Shrewsbury don't you? I imagine those trains will be a 175 or a 158.

How can I work out whether these will be decent quality trains, with plug sockets at table seats? Would be useful as I'll have my laptop!

They have table seats.......

 

[calc7]

I've missed Nym.

 

[Bedpan]

I believe the OP is attempting to refer to the BS1363 Electrical Socket...

Possibly the IEC60309 socket if he's planning on some welding, maybe even the IEC 60320 C13 Socket for specialist equipment, but the BS1363 is most likely...

Most amusing response I have read in ages - really made me laugh.

 

[Dave1987]

Interested as to why you say quote "decent trains" with plug sockets. Can a train not be decent if it doesn't offer sockets? Why do ppl nowadays insist on having sockets? Am I the only one who reads a book on the train?

 

[14xxDave]

Sorry Bedpan, the term 'plug socket' means nothing. As Nym stated there are various electrical outlet sockets and in no way is a 'plug socket' a wall socket. What about extension units.

Nope, I'm sorry it's just laziness that makes people say this. It's an electrical socket, three pin, 230 volt (and yes you can go a million miles further..!!! )

Now where's me three phase jobby....

 

[Nym]

Only three phases? Do these have a neutral line?

(PS: It's not a 230V rated socket or plug, it's actually a minimum rating of 275V for the physical device under BS7671 and BS1362/BS1363)

Although today they need only be rated for 253V under the new European Harmonisation rules and the revisions to BS7671:2008 Appendix 2 Section 14... (Dear god I'm dull today!)

 

[14xxDave]

Only if you wish for a 5 pin commando socket...

No, you're correct but the voltage delivered will hopefully be around 230

 

[Nym]

Only if you wish for a 5 pin commando socket...

No, you're correct but the voltage delivered will hopefully be around 230

MK would be so proud of you using their trademark there

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Almost anywhere other than a train it would probably referred to as a 13 Amp socket, but I wouldn't recommend plugging a toaster or kettle as it would trip the circuit breaker PDQ and incur the wrath of your fellow passengers as it is supposed to be for chargers only.

BTW, I notice some units have a 13A socket near the doors marked "not for public use". I have often wondered whether if that is just a shore supply for the cleaners at the depot, or whether it is actually possible to use it in transit. Anyone know? (Just out of curiosity - it would probably be a Bylelaw offence).

 

[Nym]

Almost anywhere other than a train it would probably referred to as a 13 Amp socket, but I wouldn't recommend plugging a toaster or kettle as it would trip the circuit breaker PDQ and incur the wrath of your fellow passengers as it is supposed to be for chargers only.

BTW, I notice some units have a 13A socket near the doors marked "not for public use". I have often wondered whether if that is just a shore supply for the cleaners at the depot, or whether it is actually possible to use it in transit. Anyone know?

You'd be supprised what they're rated for on some trains...

And the 'cleaners' sockets' tend to be a very dirty supply, not clean and/or filtered like what is provided to 'chragers'

It would also be wholly possible that the cleaners' supply is derived from an alternator or MA set, where the supply to pax is a quasi-squarewave AC supply that would break if anything remotely inductive was connected as a load.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

You'd be supprised what they're rated for on some trains...

And the 'cleaners' sockets' tend to be a very dirty supply, not clean and/or filtered like what is provided to 'chragers'

It would also be wholly possible that the cleaners' supply is derived from an alternator or MA set, where the supply to pax is a quasi-squarewave AC supply that would break if anything remotely inductive was connected as a load.

Surely at least some of the older transformer based chargers will present an inductive load?

 

[Nym]

Surely at least some of the older transformer based chargers will present an inductive load?

Most if not all chargers are transformer based, but due to being so small, they present very little inductance. This is before one considers the mode of operation for pretty much every power supply since the late 90s that includes harmonic filtering and power factor correction as part of it's construction.

I was more on about higher power equipment with a poor power factor, or anything with a particularly horrible harmonic performance. But to be honest, the kind of things I've plugged in on trains I do wonder where the limit is sometimes, and if they don't just use a clean MA set rather than something silicon based.

 

[Mugby]

Interested as to why you say quote "decent trains" with plug sockets. Can a train not be decent if it doesn't offer sockets? Why do ppl nowadays insist on having sockets? Am I the only one who reads a book on the train?

No you're certainly not the only one. I even look out of the windows and enjoy the journey!

 

[Smudger105e]

The cleaning sockets on the GX Mk2fs were not wired correctly, the earth pin was not the top pin, so those would be no good.

Sockets on the ends of rolling stock into which the 'plugs' go are called receptacles or recepts for short.

 

[Magicake]

BTW, I notice some units have a 13A socket near the doors marked "not for public use". I have often wondered whether if that is just a shore supply for the cleaners at the depot, or whether it is actually possible to use it in transit. Anyone know? (Just out of curiosity - it would probably be a Bylelaw offence).

Have seen someone charging a phone on them on SET and they definitely do work.

 

[krus_aragon]

Hello guys,

So I'm on the 8:41 Wrexham to Shrewsbury tomorrow, then the 09:30 Shrewsbury to Birmingham.

Then the 17:23 Birmingham to Wrexham.

How can I work out whether these will be decent quality trains, with plug sockets at table seats? Would be useful as I'll have my laptop!

Such a lame thread I know!

The 0841 from Ruabon (0834 from Wrexham) runs through to Cardiff, so is most likely to be a 175 (which was built without power sockets). The 0930 coming from Aberystwyth and going on to Birmingham will almost certainly be a 158, which has been refurbished with power sockets throughout.

The 1723 back from Birmingham will also be a refurbished 158.

 

[Daz28]

Typical response for this forum, 14 posts pointing out pedantic reasons why the question wasn't phrased correctly before someone attempts to answer the question!

 

[jaigee]

On the LM Desiros the sockets are labelled as plugs??

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Probably because nobody who works at LM is as annoyingly pedantic as the people who frequent this forum. By the time I got to about the fifth reply in this thread I was (almost) ready to kill myself.

 

[Nym]

Probably because nobody who works at LM is as annoyingly pedantic as the people who frequent this forum. By the time I got to about the fifth reply in this thread I was (almost) ready to kill myself.

Or perhaps it indicates the lack of attention to detail that results in staffing shortages...

 

[jaigee]

Probably because nobody who works at LM is as annoyingly pedantic as the people who frequent this forum. By the time I got to about the fifth reply in this thread I was (almost) ready to kill myself.

Could you let us all know what actually will tip you over the top and we'll all try our best.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I'm pretty sure that fleet have nothing to do with human resources though.

Now I'm the overly pedantic one.