A greener future?

[P156KWJ]

http://www.nctx.co.uk/News/2008/Ecolink_apr08.htm

Recently the first ethanol powered buses in the UK were introduced on 'ecolink' service 30 from Nottingham to Wollaton, and in my personal opinion, are nice buses to travel on. Based closely on the earlier Scania OmniCity buses, this new fleet of three buses is designated as Scania OmniLink buses, all of which are 08 reg. They are mixing in with the other 'pink line' fleet of buses, which are usually P reg Optare Excels, which are equally as comfy in my opinion.
But will it make loads of difference? Will they be too expensive to source the ethanol fuel from Sweeden? Biased or unbiased comments are welcome.

 

[Metroland]

Most bio fuels aren't especially green. It really depends where they come from and how they are grown.

Some scientists have calculated you need to put more energy into growing corn based ethanol than you get out – otherwise known as energy returned on energy invested (EROEI). Switchgrass and other crops perform better, although not as good as fossil fuels.

Another criticism is fuel is being grown instead of food, which pushes the price of food up, not especially good for people that live on the edge of starvation. One person could be fed for a year, on one 4x4 fill up.

Water is another issue, and some places are very water stressed. For example the south of Spain where they are now shipping in water in, well, ships. It takes 1000 tons of water to produce one ton of grain. Although meat is worse, taking 15,000 tons of water to produce one ton of beef!

Another criticism of biofuels is in some countries there is extensive land clearance for the crops, Endangering animal species, clearing native peoples off the lands, and created carbon payback times of 100s of years.

Algae is one interesting crop, but because of the difficulties in growing and harvesting, some studies have suggested it won't become economic until oil is $800 a barrel.

 

[P156KWJ]

it isn't plant based fuel, it's sourced from waste in Swedish incinerators, no extra impact on the environment

 

[Metroland]

What about fuel processing and transporting the fuel to the East Midlands? There's always an impact I think you'll find.

 

[yorkie]

Metroland makes very good points here.

I wonder if the likes of Richard Branson, who falsely claim biofuels are "green", realise that biofuels are actually contributing to the rising cost of staple foods such as rice? there have been food riots in several countries recently as a result, as many people are not able to afford basic foods.

We need to get away from the idea that biofuels are the answer to everything - they're not.

 

[P156KWJ]

What about fuel processing and transporting the fuel to the East Midlands? There's always an impact I think you'll find.

good point, didn't hink of that...

hydrogen cell fuel may be a good alternative

 

[Metroland]

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/staff/faculty/oswald/windaccountancy04.pdf

 

[Mojo]

Agreed with Metroland. Hydrogen is 4 times less efficient at transmitting energy than a copper wire (and that basically means trams or trolleybuses).