A failing of accessible buses

[quarella]

On my First Day South and West trip I used the 184 Frome - Bath. (Quicker services are available). At one of stops within Frome an elderly lady boarded. She walked very slowly with a limp past the inward facing seats up a steep step in front of the front wheel arch. Past the wheelchair/buggy space and tip up seats. It was approximately six metres, over half the length of the bus to reach the first forward facing seat on the level.

 

[causton]

Most buses have one or two seats just behind the driver facing towards the aisle, some on both sides, and then the tip up seats in the wheelchair bay. Unfortunately the person in the wheelchair does not have the option of going up the step so they cannot move the wheelchair space back, the driver's position can't move so the person with the limp gets the choice of sitting at the back if they want to (assuming the sideways-facing seats were empty)! Can't see a way round that... (some buses have 2 forward facing seats right at the front, but nobody likes those either as they have no view)

 

[starrymarkb]

Unfortunately the only way to avoid the wheel arch issue is to adopt a Wheel forward design like Solos and Some Streetlites. That then causes it's own issues with turning circles.

 

[jopsuk]

Still going to be easier, generally, than the old high floor designs

 

[Titfield]

I wonder how far she has to walk to the bus stop?

 

[anthony263]

Unfortunately the only way to avoid the wheel arch issue is to adopt a Wheel forward design like Solos and Some Streetlites. That then causes it's own issues with turning circles.

This I can agree with seing as I drive Solo's regulary and they can be a pain to turn around at times

 

[Tetchytyke]

She managed to walk to the bus stop, so I'm sure the extra couple of metres won't be an issue. Just as long as the driver waits for them to be seated, I don't see the issue.

 

[anthony263]

We have had a case recntly in Worcester where a guy with a zimer frame suddenly decided to start running for the bus when he saw it about to depart.

Some of use drivers looking at each other asking if we were seeing things.

Anyway I always wait for any of my passengers to be seated before departing a stop and normally if they do take ages to take a seat because they are too busy chatting to someone they get told off by fellow passengers.

Another reason why I always wait if that I dont fancy spending an hour or so filling in paperwork etc

 

[cainebj]

This really shows the advantages of the "London" layout. Though there's still the issue over the wheelarches, there's standard forward facing seats immediately after them for the elderly/disabled so they're not walking as far down the bus as one built to a "standard" layout. Sadly the dual door, centre wheelchair access layout is mostly unsuitable for a lot of areas outside of London, particularly with the craze for drive in reverse out bus stations.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

This really shows the advantages of the "London" layout. Though there's still the issue over the wheelarches, there's standard forward facing seats immediately after them for the elderly/disabled so they're not walking as far down the bus as one built to a "standard" layout. Sadly the dual door, centre wheelchair access layout is mostly unsuitable for a lot of areas outside of London, particularly with the craze for drive in reverse out bus stations.

I don't think I've ever seen a dual-door layout ever used outside of London. Every bus station that I've ever used outside of London has been drive-in, reverse out (local bus station has someone guide a bus when it reverses - all new buses seem to have gotten noticeably longer over the last 10 years.

 

[hassaanhc]

I don't think I've ever seen a dual-door layout ever used outside of London. Every bus station that I've ever used outside of London has been drive-in, reverse out (local bus station has someone guide a bus when it reverses - all new buses seem to have gotten noticeably longer over the last 10 years.

Some of the Cambridge Park & Ride E400s used by Stagecoach are dual door, as were some 2007 Geminis used in Bristol a few years ago (can't remember the operator, a few of them were snapped up for use on London school routes by Sullivan Buses).

 

[RT4038]

- all new buses seem to have gotten noticeably longer over the last 10 years.

To accommodate the wheelchair space whilst retaining the seating capacity?

 

[Titfield]

To accommodate the wheelchair space whilst retaining the seating capacity?

Yes that is correct.

 

[WestCountry]

Some of the Cambridge Park & Ride E400s used by Stagecoach are dual door..

I'm fairly certain that should be all.
They also had a few twin-door ALX400s - mostly used on the 13, they disappeared off somewhere when the Citi routes got their new E400s.

 

[34D]

I don't think I've ever seen a dual-door layout ever used outside of London.

Edinburgh? Leeds and Manchester until the 1993 and 1986 (ish) respectively? Doubtless other areas too. Not to mention operators who took secondhand ex London buses and left the middle doors functional.

Every bus station that I've ever used outside of London has been drive-in, reverse out

Every? Off the top of my head: Stevenage, Bradford, Middlesbrough.... want me to carry on?

 

[Strathclyder]

Avondale Coaches of Clydebank have a few buses with dual doors, Y539 XAG & SN51 TCU being prime examples.

 

[Hophead]

I don't think I've ever seen a dual-door layout ever used outside of London. Every bus station that I've ever used outside of London has been drive-in, reverse out (local bus station has someone guide a bus when it reverses - all new buses seem to have gotten noticeably longer over the last 10 years.

Metrobus are in the process of replacing dual-door Scanias with 2-door Volvos (both s/d) on Crawley Fastway duties. They also have a few 2-door s/d Scanias and ex-London d/ds, on which they've kept the centre door

 

[vicbury]

We've got a fair few dual-door buses here in the West. In Bath there's dual-door Volvo B7 bendy buses on the 18 (Oldfield Park - City Centre - University), and dual-door Volvo B7s, also on the 18. In Bristol the Brislington and one other Park & Ride use triple-door Mercedes bendy buses (ex London).

Southampton recently took delivery of a large number of dual-door Enviro 400s and Volvo B7s for the University of Southampton services.

They seem to work very effectively on all the above routes.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Every? Off the top of my head: Stevenage, Bradford, Middlesbrough.... want me to carry on?

Bradford Interchange is drive in and reverse out

 

[Deerfold]

Bradford Interchange is drive in and reverse out

Bradford has both types of bays - depends which side of the concourse you're on.

Halifax is forward all the way - also Hemel Hempstead, Leeds Station Street, Leeds Infirmary Street, Manchester Piccadilly Gardens, Manchester Shudehill, Rochdale, Oldham, Rotherham, Sheffield...

 

[Antman]

This really shows the advantages of the "London" layout. Though there's still the issue over the wheelarches, there's standard forward facing seats immediately after them for the elderly/disabled so they're not walking as far down the bus as one built to a "standard" layout. Sadly the dual door, centre wheelchair access layout is mostly unsuitable for a lot of areas outside of London, particularly with the craze for drive in reverse out bus stations.

A lot of disabled people complain about the 'London layout', obviously the dual door means fewer seats on the lower deck. I don't think two doors are really needed on most suburban routes.

 

[Tom B]

LRT purchased dual doors until 2002 - apparently the less salubrious members of society would try and enter through the centre door.
They converted a handful of vehicles to single-door but subsequently left the dual-door buses as they were until they were withdrawn. There may be a handful left, the 51 plate Tridents being their oldest vehicles.

SYPTE went over in the early 80s.

 

[90019]

LRT purchased dual doors until 2002 - apparently the less salubrious members of society would try and enter through the centre door.
They converted a handful of vehicles to single-door but subsequently left the dual-door buses as they were until they were withdrawn. There may be a handful left, the 51 plate Tridents being their oldest vehicles.

There aren't any left now.
There was a gap (though I'm not sure how long) with no dual door buses, but a single 51 plate Trident that came back from storage in 2012 with dual doors. It may have been 617 or 622, but I can't remember and it's since been converted.
All the others that have since come back from storage have been converted to single door.


Currently the oldest bus in the fleet is 53 (formerly 188), the only remaining Y reg Pointer.

 

[Tom B]

There aren't any left now.
There was a gap (though I'm not sure how long) with no dual door buses, but a single 51 plate Trident that came back from storage in 2012 with dual doors. It may have been 617 or 622, but I can't remember and it's since been converted.
All the others that have since come back from storage have been converted to single door.


Currently the oldest bus in the fleet is 53 (formerly 188), the only remaining Y reg Pointer.

Aha - thanks. I moved away from Edinburgh a few years ago now!

For some time their W/X/51 reg Tridents were 50/50 dual/single door. This would occasionally cause drivers to get confused and forget to open the back door, much to the passengers upset! I seem to recall that large red notices were pasted up in the drivers cabin along the lines of "THIS BUS HAS DUAL DOORS!".

 

[ECML180]

Sadly the dual door, centre wheelchair access layout is mostly unsuitable for a lot of areas outside of London, particularly with the craze for drive in reverse out bus stations.

I appreciate that the dual door layout usually offers no advantages outside of the bigger cities, but I don't see the link between that and a drive in reverse out bus station?

 

[jopsuk]

Often drive in/reverse out bus stations are designed so that only the front door is next to a boarding gate. This of course doesn't actually prohibit a two-door bus, as they're all able to have just the front door open...

 

[ECML180]

I thought it might be that, but like you said, you could just open the front door only! I would also say that most drive in drive out bus stations have the same problem as there is usually a line of railings with a gap designed to line up with the door or a solid wall with a gap.

 

[Hophead]

Often drive in/reverse out bus stations are designed so that only the front door is next to a boarding gate. This of course doesn't actually prohibit a two-door bus, as they're all able to have just the front door open...

Although a wheelchair user on board may find themselves detained longer than anticipated if the bus retains a centre-ramp from its TfL days.

 

[edwin_m]

Even if it doesn't, how does the wheelchair user get on and off if the wheelchair space is only accessible from the centre door?