A direct service linking Heathrow to Birmingham & Beyond?

[NoOnesFool]

With Heathrow being England's principal airport, it amazes me how little direct rail links there are, especially for outside London. Looking at Google Maps, it seems there is tracking from Heathrow to High Wycombe and beyond (with some reversing). It could technically be possible to run from Heathrow to High Wycombe, Birmingham New Street, Derby, Sheffield, Doncaster & York. This would reinforce the direct link from Birmingham to Doncaster and provide an enforced service from Birmingham to the north east, as well as providing all of these services with a link to Heathrow. I wonder if an open access operator would be interested in running something like this, perhaps with enhanced First Class and special through tickets for First Class plane passengers.

Do you travel to Heathrow from Birmingham or further north? I could see a niche being created for premium customers, especially those flying to America or Australia.

 

[cle]

HS2 to OOC, and a quick Crossrail right into all three terminal stations will be far quicker than anything else today. It's definitely the best balance of a solid connection vs actual demand from Birmingham or indeed, any single place - which I don't think would fill a train.

Hayes will do this function to a degree from the West - although not as much stops there. OOC will have the fasts too - but overshoot Airport Junction a good bit.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With Heathrow being England's principal airport, it amazes me how little direct rail links there are, especially for outside London. Looking at Google Maps, it seems there is tracking from Heathrow to High Wycombe and beyond (with some reversing). It could technically be possible to run from Heathrow to High Wycombe, Birmingham New Street, Derby, Sheffield, Doncaster & York. This would reinforce the direct link from Birmingham to Doncaster and provide an enforced service from Birmingham to the north east, as well as providing all of these services with a link to Heathrow. I wonder if an open access operator would be interested in running something like this, perhaps with enhanced First Class and special through tickets for First Class plane passengers.

Do you travel to Heathrow from Birmingham or further north? I could see a niche being created for premium customers, especially those flying to America or Australia.

Umm, what about HS2? OK, with a change at OOC, but because of the entire journey being on the high speed line the time lost will be easily regained.

 

[Philip]

Would a better idea be to divert the Manchester-Bournemouth Cross Country into Heathrow, via Oxford and Reading, and run the Reading-Bournemouth as a separate service?

Birmingham already has good links with Yorkshire and the North East. What's more wouldn't it make more sense if Yorkshire had a direct service to either Gatwick or Stansted, because these airports are in a more convenient railway-geographic location to be served by trains from the North East?

 

[XAM2175]

Do you travel to Heathrow from Birmingham or further north? I could see a niche being created for premium customers, especially those flying to America or Australia.

The passengers from other parts of the UK, and indeed Ireland, who are flying from Heathrow are already catered-to by the flights to Heathrow from other British and Irish airports. The broader market is also well covered by the flights from non-London airports to European and Middle-Eastern hubs by the likes of KLM and Emirates.

I would invite you to go back over the HS2 planning documents (and threads here) to read about how such a thing was considered, but ultimately dropped in favour of a connection to the Elizabeth line at the new Old Oak Common interchange.

 

[cle]

Birmingham already has good links with Yorkshire and the North East. What's more wouldn't it make more sense if Yorkshire had a direct service to either Gatwick or Stansted, because these airports are in a more convenient railway-geographic location to be served by trains from the North East?

There isn't much from either airport which can't be done from Manchester Airport - which has many rail links across the north including Yorkshire.

And many of the silly o'clock flights, especially from Stansted, but Gatwick too - rail wouldn't work for.

 

[d70g]

What's more wouldn't it make more sense if Yorkshire had a direct service to either Gatwick or Stansted, because these airports are in a more convenient railway-geographic location to be served by trains from the North East?

Send a few DMUs a day down the Midland Mainline from Leeds and onto the Thameslink Core straight to Gatwick?

 

[NoOnesFool]

Umm, what about HS2? OK, with a change at OOC, but because of the entire journey being on the high speed line the time lost will be easily regained.

That would mean a change though, with potentially luggage.

Another thing to consider is Birmingham has affluent communities in places such as Four Oaks, where houses can be placed on the market at over GBP 1 million. These places have the sort of residents who fly long haul, First Class and enjoy things such as the Concorde Lounge at Heathrow. The villages surrounding York also have affluence, a certain TV presenter who lives there springs to mind.

The service could be run by the Voyagers that Avanti currently have when they come off lease. I believe they are cleared between Leamington & York already.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That would mean a change though, with potentially luggage.

Given the very short trip from OOC to Heathrow, it's no different from an inter-terminal shuttle.

Another thing to consider is Birmingham has affluent communities in places such as Four Oaks, where houses can be placed on the market at over GBP 1 million. These places have the sort of residents who fly long haul, First Class and enjoy things such as the Concorde Lounge at Heathrow. The villages surrounding York also have affluence, a certain TV presenter who lives there springs to mind.

Who I'm sure would be very attracted to the premium nature of a 400km/h rail service!

The service could be run by the Voyagers that Avanti currently have when they come off lease. I believe they are cleared between Leamington & York already.

You're going to attract these premium passengers onto a stinking Voyager?

 

[The Planner]

Would a better idea be to divert the Manchester-Bournemouth Cross Country into Heathrow, via Oxford and Reading, and run the Reading-Bournemouth as a separate service?

Birmingham already has good links with Yorkshire and the North East. What's more wouldn't it make more sense if Yorkshire had a direct service to either Gatwick or Stansted, because these airports are in a more convenient railway-geographic location to be served by trains from the North East?

How are you doing that without reversing somewhere?

 

[PTR 444]

Would a better idea be to divert the Manchester-Bournemouth Cross Country into Heathrow, via Oxford and Reading,

No, because it would mean running diesels through the WRATH tunnel.

and run the Reading-Bournemouth as a separate service?

Which then defeats the object of that service running in the first place.

 

[DelW]

It seems highly unlikely that diesel sets would be allowed into Heathrow's subterranean stations. Ventilation would be a major problem, and you'd end up with something smelling even worse than platform level at New Street.

 

[swt_passenger]

The DfT/HS2 analysis was that there just isn’t enough demand for dedicated North West and Midlands services to Heathrow.

Despite that I think it’s been discussed here dozens of times since the decision was made. How long ago was the Heathrow Spur removed, about ten years ago?

If western access ever happens, which is highly unlikely in the current financial climate, I’d put money on it not being a diversion of the XC service.

 

[cle]

The DfT/HS2 analysis was that there just isn’t enough demand for dedicated North West and Midlands services to Heathrow.

Despite that I think it’s been discussed here dozens of times since the decision was made. How long ago was the Heathrow Spur removed, about ten years ago?

If western access ever happens, which is highly unlikely in the current financial climate, I’d put money on it not being a diversion of the XC service.

There would be more demand for Heathrow directs to Slough, Maidenhead, Reading and Oxford, than Birmingham or Manchester, comfortably. Especially the most frequent journeys (airport area employees! or weekly biz commutes) - which eclipse long haul travellers on PT airport journeys, esp with any element of regularity.

OOC to LHR isn't quite a terminal shuttle though. Those are the slow services, and will take 20 odd mins. HEx might call, or be replaced - who knows - or maybe faster future patterns, but it's a stopper for now.

 

[Bald Rick]

It seems highly unlikely that diesel sets would be allowed into Heathrow's subterranean stations. Ventilation would be a major problem, and you'd end up with something smelling even worse than platform level at New Street.

not just unlikely, but prohibited.


To put this suggestion in context: Pre Covid, Heathrow had 80m passengers through it’s terminals (40m arriving, 40m departing.) 30% of these didn’t leave the airport, they were changing planes. Of the remaining 56m (roughly 150k per day) the majority are travelling to or from London, and another significant proportion from the Home Counties.

I forget what the proportion of travellers is from the West Midlands, but it is in the region of low single digit %s of Heathrow travellers. Maybe 1000 a day each way, spread throughout the day. The proportion of those who would be tempted on to the train and willingly choose to use an imaginary* direct service that couldn’t take less than 2 hours, rather than a 45 mins to OOC and a change there for a 22 minute trip to the airport will be in single figures Per hour.


*imaginary, as it’s not going to happen.

 

[MattRat]

Pretty sure the WCML doesn't have capacity for such a service.

 

[Bald Rick]

Pretty sure the WCML doesn't have capacity for such a service.

it doesn’t.

But the OP was suggesting (I think) GWML thence via the West loop to Greenford, High Wycombe and up the Chiltern.

there’s not capacity that way either, of course, but let’s not let practicalities get in the way!

 

[MattRat]

it doesn’t.

But the OP was suggesting (I think) GWML thence via the West loop to Greenford, High Wycombe and up the Chiltern.

there’s not capacity that way either, of course, but let’s not let practicalities get in the way!

Yeah, I think the only way with possible capacity might be a reversal at Bristol from the GWML and then up to Birmingham, but even if that's true, that would be quite the detour.

 

[zwk500]

Yeah, I think the only way with possible capacity might be a reversal at Bristol from the GWML and then up to Birmingham, but even if that's true, that would be quite the detour.

Bristol? That is one hell of a detour!

 

[MattRat]

Bristol? That is one hell of a detour!

That was precisely my point. In no sensible way is OPs plan plausible.