A career as a train driver

[nolypops83]

It was in person and just 1 I didn't pass but as I was putting it off for a while due to the two chance rule I was debating whether to take a risk and do it again after nearly half a decade.

Just go for it I say, it could take a while before you get through to the assessments. Even if you fail again at least you'll know and can move on to something else. That's my thought process. For reference - I failed 1 test last year and am still trying to get an interview 18 months later. If I fail again then I know driving is not for me. If I pass, then I'm in the pool and have to wait to see if an offer materialises. I'm also in the middle of the process for AWC and have been since Feb 2023. The whole thing has stalled for the Manchester depot and there are loads of people like me who have been waiting but not heard anything for over a year. There have been no further recruitment drives since then.

Question - Why don't you think you are fully confident? Is it the tests that worry you? Or the driving role?

 

[Kay_M]

Just go for it I say, it could take a while before you get through to the assessments. Even if you fail again at least you'll know and can move on to something else. That's my thought process. For reference - I failed 1 test last year and am still trying to get an interview 18 months later. If I fail again then I know driving is not for me. If I pass, then I'm in the pool and have to wait to see if an offer materialises. I'm also in the middle of the process for AWC and have been since Feb 2023. The whole thing has stalled for the Manchester depot and there are loads of people like me who have been waiting but not heard anything for over a year. There have been no further recruitment drives since then.

Question - Why don't you think you are fully confident? Is it the tests that worry you? Or the driving role?

For me it's the assessment side of things as that's been a struggle to get through that stage of things even during my school days when I did my GCSE's over 18 years ago and university too. I would do ok but struggle a lot with it (hopefully this made sense).

All of the tests I've done I've passed to enhanced standard but one assessment which isn't a part of the core tests I didn't pass that to their standard and then I used those results to apply elsewhere and skipped the other parts and failed a core exam just narrowly below the national standard.

 

[nolypops83]

For me it's the assessment side of things as that's been a struggle to get through that stage of things even during my school days when I did my GCSE's over 18 years ago and university too. I would do ok but struggle a lot with it (hopefully this made sense).

All of the tests I've done I've passed to enhanced standard but one assessment which isn't a part of the core tests I didn't pass that to their standard and then I used those results to apply elsewhere and skipped the other parts and failed a core exam just narrowly below the national standard.

Which one did you fail? If you've passed all but one of the psychometrics before you can do it again. You'll have plenty of time to practice.

Once you get into training I believe there are lots of tests that you'll need to pass. By the sounds of it the classroom training is pretty intense, would you be able to cope with it? You'd have support obviously but I think most people find it pretty hard going, so you wouldn't be alone.

 

[Kay_M]

Which one did you fail? If you've passed all but one of the psychometrics before you can do it again. You'll have plenty of time to practice.

Once you get into training I believe there are lots of tests that you'll need to pass. By the sounds of it the classroom training is pretty intense, would you be able to cope with it? You'd have support obviously but I think most people find it pretty hard going, so you wouldn't be alone.

I believe it was the TRP 2 test I passed the TRP 1 but as they're both 1 test split into two parts it would be a fail. So the TEA-OCC, Group Bourdon, DFFT I passed all of that. I would have had to do the 2 hand co-ordination and WAFV and MMI but as this was done more than 5 years ago I would have to probably do most of them again

 

[Dragon77]

@Ducatichick have you heard back yet?

 

[Ducatichick]

@Ducatichick have you heard back yet?

No I haven’t heard either way. I’m thinking of popping an email across on Monday?

Do you have your date for the assesment centre?

 

[Chipbutty]

Hi there, I have recently passed my assessments for a role with LNER. However I have always like the idea of driving for Thameslink and in the application process.
I’d like to get your opinions of the pros and cons for driving for each company and ultimately which would be a better fit.

 

[Horizon22]

Hi there, I have recently passed my assessments for a role with LNER. However I have always like the idea of driving for Thameslink and in the application process.
I’d like to get your opinions of the pros and cons for driving for each company and ultimately which would be a better fit.

Any particular reason you want to drive for Thameslink over LNER?

Thameslink is all DOO work whereas LNER is guarded so that's a major plus for many drivers.

 

[Chipbutty]

Any particular reason you want to drive for Thameslink over LNER?

Thameslink is all DOO work whereas LNER is guarded so that's a major plus for many drivers.

Thanks! That’s a great reason for me to stay with LNER.

I live near the Thameslink line, so would be slightly easier getting in for early mornings etc. and also a big plus is the Sundays not included in the (slightly higher) salary.

 

[Dragon77]

No I haven’t heard either way. I’m thinking of popping an email across on Monday?

Do you have your date for the assesment centre?

That is frustrating for you. I had my result in 2 days but I know someone else who was asked to retake the miniscaat and raat and they haven't received results yet.
No I don't have a date yet.
Did you have to do the sjt straight after application too?
All the toc seem to do things slightly different.

 

[Ducatichick]

That is frustrating for you. I had my result in 2 days but I know someone else who was asked to retake the miniscaat and raat and they haven't received results yet.
No I don't have a date yet.
Did you have to do the sjt straight after application too?
All the toc seem to do things slightly different.

Yes I was sent the SJT almost immediately. It could have been an automated email tbh.

I ended up emailing last night in the end.
That’s really odd your friend was asked to retake it. Maybe the OPC had a technical faux pax? I guess it happens occasionally to everyone.

 

[S-Car-Go]

It was in person and just 1 I didn't pass but as I was putting it off for a while due to the two chance rule I was debating whether to take a risk and do it again after nearly half a decade.

I did my first attempt in 2010. Passed all tests except the interview (later found out I had got 19/20... and failed it which was gutting).

If I had reapplied within a year or 2, I would only have had to do the interview again.

Instead I waited 7 years, had to retake everything, passed but at the driver manager's interview I was informed no vacancies existed tfor the depot I wanted. Disappointed, but not beaten, I applied to another TOC in 2019, they required me in for 1 manager interview only, and I was hired.

The point is, if you fail only 1 part of the psychometric testing, reapply within a year or 2, so there's less to trawl through again, and concentrate on the element you fell down on.

 

[Kay_M]

I did my first attempt in 2010. Passed all tests except the interview (later found out I had got 19/20... and failed it which was gutting).

If I had reapplied within a year or 2, I would only have had to do the interview again.

Instead I waited 7 years, had to retake everything, passed but at the driver manager's interview I was informed no vacancies existed tfor the depot I wanted. Disappointed, but not beaten, I applied to another TOC in 2019, they required me in for 1 manager interview only, and I was hired.

The point is, if you fail only 1 part of the psychometric testing, reapply within a year or 2, so there's less to trawl through again, and concentrate on the element you fell down on.

Definitely. I'm taking that on board now. Especially as the rules have changed to 3 chances now I will do my best to try and become a Train Driver. I have railway experience already but even with that it doesn't guarantee a person to get into that grade. I sat on it pondering for too long

 

[Ducatichick]

That is frustrating for you. I had my result in 2 days but I know someone else who was asked to retake the miniscaat and raat and they haven't received results yet.
No I don't have a date yet.
Did you have to do the sjt straight after application too?
All the toc seem to do things slightly different.

So I had an email today and it seems I didn’t pass the miniSCAAT. Really gutted as I thought I did well.

Does anyone know whether the mini SCAAT fail means I’ve lost a life? :,(

 

[Dragon77]

So I had an email today and it seems I didn’t pass the miniSCAAT. Really gutted as I thought I did well.

Does anyone know whether the mini SCAAT fail means I’ve lost a life?

So I had an email today and it seems I didn’t pass the miniSCAAT. Really gutted as I thought I did well.

Does anyone know whether the mini SCAAT fail means I’ve lost a life? :,(

Oh no that's a shame! My friend didn't pass either.

Hopefully you can reapply for another role

 

[Ducatichick]

Oh no that's a shame! My friend didn't pass either.

Hopefully you can reapply for another role

Oh I’m sorry to hear your friend didn’t get a pass either. In case your friend might be wondering, (and for the purposes of anyone searching for this on the forum in future), if you fail a mini SCAAT with GTR it does not mean that you have lost any sort of life regarding applying for a trainee/driver position. The only thing it means is that you have to wait 6 months to apply for a similar role within GTR TOC. You can apply to other TOC though.

Hopefully that’s helpful for anyone else who might be in this position.

Dragon77 please keep us posted with your application. I really hope it’s positive for you all the way through.

 

[Sherb19]

That is frustrating for you. I had my result in 2 days but I know someone else who was asked to retake the miniscaat and raat and they haven't received results yet.
No I don't have a date yet.
Did you have to do the sjt straight after application too?
All the toc seem to do things slightly different.

Hi Dragon77. I am also in the same position as you awaiting to hear about assessment date. Have you heard about a date yet?

Thanks

 

[Spider1806]

I failed 2 of the computer tests at the start of 2023 and knew I had to wait six months before I could resit. Luckily for me a TOC advertised about two months after my freeze expired. Due to the drawn out nature of the process I didn't get to resit Stage 2 until the Spring of this year. I had already told myself that I would do things differently the second time around, if I got the opportunity. I had a two hour drive to sit my Stage 2 psychometrics in 2023 and although I got there in plenty of time I definitely think I would have been better served by staying in a hotel beforehand. This year I stopped in a nearby hotel, and the overall experience was better for it. I prepared no differently in the week prior to the tests. However, it felt like the grey square change was more obvious, while the joysticks test was just a case of speeding up (I crawled around the track on my first attempt, neglecting speed for accuracy).

Despite passing, I came away annoyed that I didn't perform to that standard during my first attempt. I was less harsh on myself upon receiving the news that I'd passed my MMI.

I'm certainly not suggesting that its easier second time in, and wouldn't want to lull anybody in to a false sense of security. Maybe having the experience of the first attempt helped me in some way. I certainly credit the decision to stop in a hotel for me being fresh on the day. This depends on finances and individual circumstances but it was worth it for me.

Good luck

Hi mate - you able to get give me good advice on the computer tests?

Concerned about the ball on track

 

[New York Giant]

Hi mate - you able to get give me good advice on the computer tests?

Concerned about the ball on track

They're looking for accuracy but don't drag your feet. My first time doing that test I made sure not to come off the track - and I didn't. Unfortunately, I took that long that the guy next to me had his feet up on the desk and a cigar on the go. Passed it 2nd time by following the advice echoed by many on these threads : accuracy AND a decent speed. Use the practise laps wisely, maybe see which hand position gives you good balance between comfort and control.

 

[Dragon77]

Hi Dragon77. I am also in the same position as you awaiting to hear about assessment date. Have you heard about a date yet?

Thanks

Well done for getting this far! No, nothing yet. I done my miniscaat on 27th Nov, found out i passed on 29th and haven't heard about an assessment date yet. Where did you apply for?

 

[AverageJoe]

They're looking for accuracy but don't drag your feet. My first time doing that test I made sure not to come off the track - and I didn't. Unfortunately, I took that long that the guy next to me had his feet up on the desk and a cigar on the go. Passed it 2nd time by following the advice echoed by many on these threads : accuracy AND a decent speed. Use the practise laps wisely, maybe see which hand position gives you good balance between comfort and control.

Did the guy with his feet up sucking on a stogie pass though?

I think with a lot of these tests they are looking for you to use good discernment.

Do I prioritise pace or accuracy, do I go for a mix and if so have I got the right mix… I’m pretty sure they want to know if you have what it takes to make these decisions without any guidance to see what your instincts tell you.

These forums are fantastic but sometimes there is a bit too much assistance given and those passing the tests might only have done so because they were given heads up on things which meant they possibly acted in a way they normally wouldn’t.

But that’s just my views on it.

 

[nolypops83]

Did the guy with his feet up sucking on a stogie pass though?

I think with a lot of these tests they are looking for you to use good discernment.

Do I prioritise pace or accuracy, do I go for a mix and if so have I got the right mix… I’m pretty sure they want to know if you have what it takes to make these decisions without any guidance to see what your instincts tell you.

These forums are fantastic but sometimes there is a bit too much assistance given and those passing the tests might only have done so because they were given heads up on things which meant they possibly acted in a way they normally wouldn’t.

But that’s just my views on it.

I totally understand your POV, but I don't think there's any harm in practicing. The TOC's give you practice material so it's not like they expect you to go in completely blind. You could argue that people who have done some research and preparation have shown initiative. Anticipating risk and being prepared are good skills to have as a driver.

 

[AverageJoe]

I totally understand your POV, but I don't think there's any harm in practicing. The TOC's give you practice material so it's not like they don't expect you to go in completely blind. You could argue that people who have done some research and preparation have shown initiative. Anticipating risk and being prepared are good skills to have as a driver.

I totally get that, and of course you are given prep material from the toc, but that only gives you the chance to practice using a similar skill set that is required.

Some on here want the exact questions and every bit of info needed to pass the test, and of course some will oblige with that.

For me that’s too far and increases the chance of people getting through that possibly don’t have the required skill set.

Again just my opinion and I’m sure many won’t share it.

 

[Amnesiac]

Anticipating risk and being prepared are good skills to have as a driver.

Agree to an extent with regards to these tests. Being prepared and anticipating risk are absolutely necessary for a driver, but it's also about how quickly you can adapt to an unfamiliar situation too. It is after all, a test of natural aptitude! For me, the Trainee Driver Assessment Process Tips thread strikes the right balance of what to expect without giving too much of an advantage to the next person who is taking it.

 

[nolypops83]

Agree to an extent with regards to these tests. Being prepared and anticipating risk are absolutely necessary for a driver, but it's also about how quickly you can adapt to an unfamiliar situation too. It is after all, a test of natural aptitude! For me, the Trainee Driver Assessment Process Tips thread strikes the right balance of what to expect without giving too much of an advantage to the next person who is taking it.

I totally get that, and of course you are given prep material from the toc, but that only gives you the chance to practice using a similar skill set that is required.

Some on here want the exact questions and every bit of info needed to pass the test, and of course some will oblige with that.

For me that’s too far and increases the chance of people getting through that possibly don’t have the required skill set.

Again just my opinion and I’m sure many won’t share it.

I suppose the way I see it, it's like having your driving instructor take you round the routes that the examiners use, before taking your driving test. You still need to be able to drive well and you still don't know everything that will come across on your route. The natural abilities still have to be there, it's just one less thing to worry about. Even if you get into an unfamiliar situation while driving a train then there are still rules and protocols to follow. I have no idea what they are right now but I imagine if I'd been through training they'd be explained to me and I'd be expected to remember them. Just like a pilot practicing for an emergency landing on water.

 

[AverageJoe]

I suppose the way I see it, it's like having your driving instructor take you round the routes that the examiners use, before taking your driving test. You still need to be able to drive well and you still don't know everything that will come across on your route. The natural abilities still have to be there, it's just one less thing to worry about. Even if you get into an unfamiliar situation while driving a train then there are still rules and protocols to follow. I have no idea what they are right now but I imagine if I'd been through training they'd be explained to me and I'd be expected to remember them. Just like a pilot practicing for an emergency landing on water.

But like we both said, some guidance is necessary, which is what we get from the toc when we apply. It’s enough to pass if we have the correct skills.

But when it comes to asking extremely specific questions about exactly what questions and how should I answer, how many laps of the 2 hand co-ord and so on then you could say that is like the instructor telling you the exact route you will take on the driving tests and the exact issues you will face along the way, also giving you the order of the theory questions and the answers needed.

Would the person pass the driving tests, probably. Would they be a good driver? Possibly not.

As said before some of these tests are for to see how you handle the pressure at the moment, how you prioritise and how quickly you understand and react to information.

If you walk in to these tests knowing exactly what is about to happen and prepared in what to do then it doesn’t necessarily mean you could react like that in the real world.

The tests are there for a reason and ultimately people want the job that badly some don’t really care if they have the skills needed.

 

[Jaynie350]

I just recently(11th Dec)had my drivers assessment at Tonbridge for Southeastern, unfortunately i failed on the VSE mainly due to me not understanding the third part properly. Anyway the rest of the tests i passed are apparently up to national standards, so that’s a bit of a silver lining.
I am toying around with the idea of going for train movement apprentice( shunter driver) when they come up , as one of the assessors was saying to me that they have had a lot of shunter drivers going for the driving job.
The question is, does Southeastern require enhanced for that position or is the national standard enough for that role, and being as it’s not the same job, in theory I shouldn’t have to wait 6 months should they come up.

 

[Neatro]

I just recently(11th Dec)had my drivers assessment at Tonbridge for Southeastern, unfortunately i failed on the VSE mainly due to me not understanding the third part properly. Anyway the rest of the tests i passed are apparently up to national standards, so that’s a bit of a silver lining.
I am toying around with the idea of going for train movement apprentice( shunter driver) when they come up , as one of the assessors was saying to me that they have had a lot of shunter drivers going for the driving job.
The question is, does Southeastern require enhanced for that position or is the national standard enough for that role, and being as it’s not the same job, in theory I shouldn’t have to wait 6 months should they come up.

There's no such thing as enhanced.

There's national and then every operator has their own "enhanced" standard, could be additional tests such as the VSE, could be a higher pass threshold or both.

 

[Ducatichick]

I just recently(11th Dec)had my drivers assessment at Tonbridge for Southeastern, unfortunately i failed on the VSE mainly due to me not understanding the third part properly. Anyway the rest of the tests i passed are apparently up to national standards, so that’s a bit of a silver lining.
I am toying around with the idea of going for train movement apprentice( shunter driver) when they come up , as one of the assessors was saying to me that they have had a lot of shunter drivers going for the driving job.
The question is, does Southeastern require enhanced for that position or is the national standard enough for that role, and being as it’s not the same job, in theory I shouldn’t have to wait 6 months should they come up.

I think speaking to someone in South Easterns recruitment dept might be the best place to find the answers to this. I’d imagine they would require the same level, but that’s just my logic and nothing else.
You might need to check how long you need to wait to retake any tests as the rules have recently changed - you might have to wait a year now.

 

[NSEWonderer]

I just recently(11th Dec)had my drivers assessment at Tonbridge for Southeastern, unfortunately i failed on the VSE mainly due to me not understanding the third part properly. Anyway the rest of the tests i passed are apparently up to national standards, so that’s a bit of a silver lining.
I am toying around with the idea of going for train movement apprentice( shunter driver) when they come up , as one of the assessors was saying to me that they have had a lot of shunter drivers going for the driving job.
The question is, does Southeastern require enhanced for that position or is the national standard enough for that role, and being as it’s not the same job, in theory I shouldn’t have to wait 6 months should they come up.

Shunter driver does not require the VSE but if you later want to progress to mainline driver then you'll need the VSE.